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Tome of Battle - Book of Nine Swords

Gold Roger

First Post
I think it's okey the ToB classes are striktly better than the fighter, because from a setting point of view they replace him anyway and mechanical he couldn't hold up anyway. The fighter was always the trained warrior, but if extended martial training includes mystic martial arts, a trained combatant is a martial artist and not just someone who knows how to hold a sword real well.

The ToB does away with some traditional fantasy elements, but it's supposed to be an experimental and highly optional suplement.
 

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the Jester

Legend
So these new classes are intended as a power-up and replacement of the fighter, rather than additional classes in the world?

Interesting.
 

Gold Roger

First Post
the Jester said:
So these new classes are intended as a power-up and replacement of the fighter, rather than additional classes in the world?

Interesting.
Actually that's more my interpretion of the whole thing. Sorry if I made it sound like that intend was expressed in the book (which I don't own yet).
 

wayne62682

First Post
I skimmed through it today at my local Books-A-Million. Not impressed. The system looked interesting, but the blurb on page 6 that basically said it was to infuse Eastern, HK action movie type stuff in D&D totally threw me off of it.
 

Sound of Azure

Contemplative Soul
Gold Roger said:
I think it's okey the ToB classes are striktly better than the fighter, because from a setting point of view they replace him anyway and mechanical he couldn't hold up anyway. The fighter was always the trained warrior, but if extended martial training includes mystic martial arts, a trained combatant is a martial artist and not just someone who knows how to hold a sword real well.

The ToB does away with some traditional fantasy elements, but it's supposed to be an experimental and highly optional suplement.

That's an interesting point of view. You could be right there. Indeed, I wouldn't mind doing so if the classes look good on closer inspecition.

wayne62682 said:
I skimmed through it today at my local Books-A-Million. Not impressed. The system looked interesting, but the blurb on page 6 that basically said it was to infuse Eastern, HK action movie type stuff in D&D totally threw me off of it..

Fair enough. I'm not really surprised the book is polarising folk on that issue. Me, even if I don't use everything from the book, it'll give me an interesting way to describe what it is my Fighter PC does, his styles and training, etc. I remember greatly enjoying the description of Rand al'Thor's training sessions as he learnt swordplay in the Wheel of Time books. This book could give me a hand with that kind of flavour. :)
My character could be perfecting his "Storm-spear strike", or "Avalanche counter", or any number of things. The Martial lore thing looks good too, making the warrior something more of an expert than he used to be.

Anyhow, only time (and some gaming!) will tell how it all works out. Game on! :D
 

JustKim

First Post
It's going to take a while to digest the ~60 pages of maneuvers and stances, so I'm going to hold off commenting on those for a while. After that are PrCs, magic items and monsters.

Bloodclaw master is designed for the Tiger Claw discipline. They gain a shifting ability that looks identical to the claw shifters from Eberron, use their full Strength with offhand damage, a bonus to your stance that comes in a few different forms, a much tamer version of the pounce ability, and some other tiger-related abilities like lowlight vision, scent and rending. The table showing their bonus maneuvers known/readied is a little unusual because it's laid out 1/0/1/0/1 and 0/0/1/0/0 instead of 1/1/2/2/3 and 0/0/1/1/1 like all the base classes.

Bloodstorm blade is another class with blood in the name, and this one is all about thrown weapons. It shares the warblade's ability to take fighter feats, grants thrown weapons the returning property and eventually makes it quicker, synergy with Iron Heart maneuvers (which I haven't looked at yet), an ability to treat thrown attacks as melee attacks and sacrifice maneuvers to full attack with a thrown weapon, a bonus to the Iron Heart stance, ability to cause bleeding damage, and a very powerful whirlwind attack that apparently lets you attack anything your thrown weapon can reach.

Deepstone sentinel is a dwarf PrC that is not surprisingly defensive in nature. It has an ability to form or suddenly dissolve a kind of defensive mountain underfoot, cast passwall, render foes immobile, trip with stalagmites, and cause tremors that do a lot of damage.

Eternal blade is an elf PrC that accesses an ancestral warrior spirit. The spirit actually follows you around and can be killed, but reforms in 1d6 rounds. It can give you a favored enemy or maneuver, help you overcome DR, grant uncanny dodge, aid knowledge checks, add your Int bonus to AC against one enemy, reduce an enemy's AC for your allies, and eventually merge with it to act twice in one round once per encounter.

Jade Phoenix mage is, as the name suggests, an arcane PrC. It only loses two caster levels but gains maneuvers and stances very slowly across 10 levels. They can lose spell slots to enhance attacks, gain some bonuses to knowledge checks and saves against death/fear effects that you can eventually grant to others, access to a couple of special stances, an ability to empower or quicken a spell after a martial strike, and a self-immolation ability.

Master of nine is a generalist who studies all 9 disciplines and gains maneuvers known/readied faster than any other class. They can use two stances at once, improve the save DC of maneuvers, change a stance as part of a counter, and attack/damage bonuses for readying maneuvers from multiple paths.

Ruby Knight vindicators are knights of Wee Jas similar to the Jade Phoenix mage but gaining 8/10 divine spellcasting levels. They can expend turning attempts to recover maneuvers or gain additional swift actions, ignore armor penalties to hide checks, and eventually expend turning attempts to enhance attacks. I'm really not sure what the PrC has to do with Wee Jas, but I'm only skimming so maybe there's something really interesting in there I'm missing.

Shadow Sun ninja is a monk PrC, retaining monk abilities while gaining some maneuvers and stances at the aforementioned very slow rate. They are conflicted between light and dark energy, and have an ability to deal negative energy damage with an attack, then heal with positive energy with a touch. They also resist/absorb cold damage and turn it into a fire attack, flash with a blinding light when they attack after hiding, gain a bonus to attack blind foes while also blind (?), a cold immolation ability, a dazzling stobe light attack, and eventually a risky ability which lets you drain levels but may turn you into a vampire.

That's all of the PrCs, I'll get into the magic items and monsters in a bit.

Not impressed. The system looked interesting, but the blurb on page 6 that basically said it was to infuse Eastern, HK action movie type stuff in D&D totally threw me off of it.
I think it depends totally on how you approach the system. You can achieve the sort of outlandish action kung fu movies boast with magic, and Tome of Battle just allows you to do so with weapons instead, so I don't see it as being all that different. Maybe I've just become numb to the nuances of the d20 system.
 


Vocenoctum

First Post
JustKim said:
One thing I don't like about the class is that while you can pick the maneuvers you prepare, the ones you have available at the start of an encounter are "determined randomly", even at 20th level. Maybe there's a feat or something to counter this, I haven't read that far.
It's a wierd limitation. You get 5 (level 1-9, 6 until 19, then 7) that you can ready, but at the start of each combat 2/3/4 of them are randomly "available" from that 5/6/7. Then, each round, another (randomly) becomes available. I don't dislike the structure, but it's very odd. :)

So far, the book is very flavorful and I'm enjoying reading it. I've no clue yet on how playable they are, but the material looks neat.
 

JustKim

First Post
The first section of magic items is for legacy items, once for each discipline. The chapter begins with a page and a half summarizing how weapons of legacy work much more succinctly than the book itself did.

Desert Wind is a scimitar with fire abilities, and in addition grants endure elements, burning hands, enhancement bonuses to Dexterity, the Quick Draw feat, and access (or improvements) to the maneuvers burning blade, fan the flames and wyrm's flame.

Faithful Avenger is a falchion for the Devoted Spirit discipline with holy or unholy properties. It also grants an attack bonus against diametrically opposed alignments, enhancement bonuses to Constitution, detect evil at will, lesser restoration, restoration, access (or improvements) to immortal fortitude stance, and an ability to "ignore damage from a single source once per day".

Supernatural Clarity is a keen rapier for the Diamond Mind discipline. It grants access (or improvements) to the sapphire nightmare blade maneuver, an attack bonus to Diamond Mind strikes, the ability to use Concentration in place of Balance, haste, uncanny dodge, freedom of movement, and even time stop.

Kamate is a bastard sword for the Iron Heart discipline with shocking properties. It grants access (or improvements) to the steel wind maneuver, shocking grasp, an ability to ignore concealment, bonus to reflex saves, lightning bolt, chain lightning, and true strike as an immediate action.

Eventide's Edge is a defending short sword of the Setting Sun discipline. It deals more damage to opponents larger than you, applies your Wisdom bonus to AC, grants access (or improvements) to the comet throw maneuver, improvement to comet throw against larger enemies, and greater invisibility.

Umbral Awn is a ghost touch dagger of the Shadow Hand discipline. It lets you hide from any flatfooted creature, grants sneak attack, an ability to draw the weapon as an immediate action, improved flanking, invisibility at will, and incorporeality.

Unfettered is a greatsword of the Stone Dragon discipline. It grants access (or improvements) to the charging minotaur maneuver, enhancement bonuses to Strength, enlarge person, meld into stone, light fortification, stoneskin, and Mordenkainen's sword.

Tiger Fang is a keen kukri of the Tiger Claw discipline which never improves beyond +1. It lets you attack twice on a charge, grants a bonus to Jump, a little bit of healing as a swift action, bonus damage for a Tiger Claw stance, haste, improved critical multiplier (x3 and then x4), and the power critical feat. The critical potential for the weapon seems excessive before even looking at the Tiger Claw maneuvers.

Blade of the Last Citadel is a defending longsword of the White Raven discipline. It grants access (or improvements) to the leading attack maneuver, prayer, remove fear, cure critical wounds, blade barrier, and heal.

The next magic item section introduces more common magic items. There are two new weapon properties, Aptitude (applies any weapon-specific feat to the weapon) and Martial Discipline (Bonus to attack rolls when using maneuvers). Martial Scripts, scrolls containing maneuvers, are also described and there is one miscellaneous item, the crown of White Ravens which grants the use of a White Raven maneuver while worn. Variants for each of the other disciplines are described to save some room. The items are all in DMG2 format.

Monsters later.
 

JustKim

First Post
There are 3 new monsters. Each one has a LA and a rationale for the LA figure, which I thought was nice. The format is the same as MM4 and includes lore for each creature, but no maps.

The first one is a rakshasa, and the artist (Steve Ellis) once again fails to draw rakshasa hands correctly. They're CR 7, fast but light on HP and AC. The Naityan rakshasa's animal head depends on which of 4 different disciplines it uses at the time. They also have the standard rakshasa abilities of deception.

The reth dekala are faithless warriors who made a deal with a dark power and became cursed in death. The concept seems to say "undead", but they are outsiders, which makes them very strong for CR 4. In addition to 5 outsider HD, they have 5 effective levels of maneuvers and stances, air walk, resistance to critical hits and a sickening aura. Certainly top tier CR 4 creatures.

Valkyries are bizarre. They wield two swords, have a lightning gaze attack, wings and bestial bottom halves like satyrs. Their AC, HP and DR seem about right for CR 9, though maneuver/stance level again overshoots CR by 1. The departure from the romanticized pop culture valkyrie is so extreme that the monster is barely recognizeable.
 

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