Tome of Battle - spells for fighters? How does that work?

[Tonguez]

Okay I've not seen the Tome of Battle but this quote intrigued me so anyone want to explain what its talking about...

Slavicsek tells us that “The Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords book, which gave fighter-type characters the same types of options spellcasters do by basically giving them spells for fighters,” was received very well. “That idea has been extremely popular, and we’re adopting something similar for Fourth Edition.”

 

[Agamon]

Not spells, 'powers'. Sounds like super-feat ninja kung-fu badassness to me. Meh.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Not spells, 'powers'. Sounds like super-feat ninja kung-fu badassness to me. Meh.

Yeah, like disarming people, hitting two close targets with a standard action, parrying an attack, or doing more damage!

Cheers, LT.

 

[EricNoah]

Was trying to remember where I had seen some info recently (I don't have the book either). Found this thread at RPG.net: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=349521

I gather it's not so much "casting spells" as it is giving martial-types some (possibly non-magical) special abilities they can use/expend kinda like a wizard or sorcerer spends spell slots.

 

[TheCrazyMuffinMan]

Sounds more like exceptional combat techniques (with damage and to-hit bonuses and possible aftereffects.)

 

[Agamon]

Yeah, like disarming people, hitting two close targets with a standard action, parrying an attack, or doing more damage!

Why does a fighter need spell-like powers to do that? Sucks to be the non-fighters in melee if this is the case.

 

[Nifft]

Why does a fighter need spell-like powers to do that? Sucks to be the non-fighters in melee if this is the case.

"Spell like" in that they're limited use and have names.

Not "spell like" in that they're all magical and sparkly.

It's a great system, although easy to misunderstand if you've never seen it and are going on out of context quotes.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Hjorimir]

Why does a fighter need spell-like powers to do that? Sucks to be the non-fighters in melee if this is the case.

Assuming that the other classes who tend to find themselves in melee don't have similar abilities (but more in line with their class).

 

[jasin]

In plain language, ignoring D&D rules terminology, I'd describe them a cool combat moves.

In Bo9S they range from relatively tame and mundane stuff like disarming, fighting with two weapons or tripping, to magical and/or over the top like trampling enemies underfoot, shooting bolts of fire, turning incorporeal or killing with a single savage blow.

As a basic rule, you get to use each once per fight. While this can be said to have verisimilitude problems ("If I know how to trip people now, why don't I know it the next round?"), they're relatively easily handwaved away at the level of abstraction at which D&D works (it's not that you don't know, you're just looking for an opening), and in actual gameplay, it has the effect of encouraging/forcing you do be interesting and do different stuff rather than just say "OK, this guy is vulnerable to tripping, I just keep tripping him".

In Bo9S, the abilities have a distinct Oriental/anime/wuxia flavour, with names like Emerald Razor, Leaping Dragon Stance or (I'm not making this up ) Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation Strike.

For inclusion into the core rules, I hope they tone down the wuxia names (as much as I enjoy them, it's not the flavour I want as the default) and that they make the more overtly magical abilities like lighting swords on fire or teleporting or becoming incorporeal only available to those who choose to pursue those path explicitly (feats to get access, PrCs... however this will work 4E). I don't want a swordsman just picking up the ability to shoot bolts of fire on the side, just because it was available.

That said, the mention of Bo9S as a sort of preview/trial run for 4E concepts is one of the strongest selling points for me so far.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Why does a fighter need spell-like powers to do that? Sucks to be the non-fighters in melee if this is the case.

Basically, it's like Nifft said. "Spell-like" only refers to the mechanical implementation, not to the way it works. It is still an mundane act.

They're maneuvers, pre-packaged effects (like spells are pre-packaged effects), that allow you to do stuff. You activate it, apply the effect, then you cannot use it, until you regain the maneuver (the warblade uses a swift action, followed by a normal attack).

So, they're just a more interesting and tactically involved way to implement fightning techniques.

I'll admit, that there ARE supernatural maneuvers (spitting fire, teleporting), but they're restricted to a fighter-mage-monk like class. The other classes only get normal stuff, like hitting harder, knocking people to the floor, giving commands to your allies...

Cheers, LT.