[Tome of Magic] Tell me about the Binder!

[catsclaw227]

Mechanically, I find incarnates a much better adaptable character.

Brain freeze -- which book are incarnates from?

 

[Nifft]

Brain freeze -- which book are incarnates from?

Magic of Incarnum

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Yeah, I agree that the Binder could use a better "mid-day switch" mechanism. The Phylacteries (new wondrous item) are just not a great mechanic.

-- N

 

[catsclaw227]

Magic of Incarnum

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Yeah, I agree that the Binder could use a better "mid-day switch" mechanism. The Phylacteries (new wondrous item) are just not a great mechanic.

OK -- I have this book too, what makes Incarnates so cool?

(I have too many books.... and I have only really skimmed many of them -- how lame is that??? )

 

[Valesin]

This is all great feedback.

I have a swordsage in the party, as well as a ..... well, just check my sig in the OP. The binder would likely replace either the beguiler or the cleric.

There is no way a binder could replace the cleric unless you have another source of healing. The binder and the beguiler are polar opposites in tone: the latter is incredibly focused and better at what he does than anyone else, the former is very versatile and, while not the best at anything, can really help a party that may need a particular ability that no one forsaw.

Since the binder can never replace a cleric, I would say it has to replace the beguiler in this instance.

 

[Andor]

If I may threadjack briefly...

The one thing that bugs me about binders is the Knight of the Sacred Seal PrC. Why would a binder not take this PrC? Better HD, Better BAB, Prof with Med/Hvy Armour and Shields & Martial Weapons, plus full Binding Progression. All in exchange for having to take Weapon Focus? It's such an incredible no brainer. Now don't get me wrong, it's hardly an overpowered PrC, but I have oogy feelings about mandatory PrCs. PrCs that are so good you're an idiot not to take them.

 

[Valesin]

I think, both conceptually and mechanically, binders are the most fascinating of the three new classes in Tome of Magic--and I say that as the author of one of the other two new classes.

I know you are being modest and that this is off-topic, but I think ToM is the best WotC book released in years. I couldn't pick a favorite class from it; as a DM I have royally screwed my party with NPC BBEG from all three sections!

ToM to me was the epitome of WotC designers being encouraged to think outside the box, a trend that began with the Warlock and almost reached perfection with Magic of Incarnum. But ToM...wow. Just wow.

(BTW Mouseferatu, your 'unofficial' fixes to the shadowcaster moved it from #2 in my book to #1. Thanks for the original class and thanks for continuing to think about it even after publication).

 

[Andor]

There is no way a binder could replace the cleric unless you have another source of healing. The binder and the beguiler are polar opposites in tone: the latter is incredibly focused and better at what he does than anyone else, the former is very versatile and, while not the best at anything, can really help a party that may need a particular ability that no one forsaw.

Since the binder can never replace a cleric, I would say it has to replace the beguiler in this instance.

Well... Once a Binder can bind Buer (sp?) they effectively have unlimited daily healing, but it's all out of combat. In combat they get a CLW once every 5 rounds. Wheee.....

So if they party has some means of surviving without a cleric in combat the binder makes a fine cleric replacement out of combat. Assuming of course the binder is willing to always bind Grandmother Huntress.

 

[Nifft]

Knight of the Sacred Seal -
Gains:
+ d10 hd (vs d8)
+ full BAB (vs 3/4)
+ cool class abilities

Loses:
- 2 skill points (vs 4)
- bad Will save
- from Binder levels 16-20: 2 pact augmentations, permanent Mind Blank, and a bonus Feat


Those high-level Binder bennies are really sweet. Hmm.

Cheers, -- N

PS: My favorite PrC would be the Anima Mage. Too bad about the "any non-Good" thing, but hey, I can be Evil for the sake of cool.

 

[Graf]

Very flavorful. CW says weak, especially at lower and higher levels.

 

[Kurotowa]

I want to like the Binder, they have wonderful flavor. But every time I look at the class the flaws of the mechanics puts me off. I try and picture a character and they always come out limited and weak. If they could bind more vestiges at once or had more freedom to switch vestiges, then the class would be a lot more viable. As it is, it's like people say, they can do a lot of things poorly and nothing well.

Really, I think the Incarnate does the same thing only a whole lot better.