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<blockquote data-quote="Imban" data-source="post: 4922819" data-attributes="member: 29206">(This might be better served on the Paizo forums, but honestly I don't really like them and don't have an account.)So, I really like the Tome of Secrets Artificer, except for how its main ability, the weird science inventions, works. (Or, uh, apparently doesn't.) While you're certainly limiting yourself if you choose to expend all of your inventions on one invention, it seems to have the potential for hideously stupid attacks - at level 9, an Artificer can handily make a &quot;mage gun&quot; that deals 20d4+20 damage with no hitroll required or save possible 6 times per day while still retaining all his possible 2nd and 3rd level spells for utility effects.At higher levels this can pretty much be repeated with area spells (50d6 fire or lightning damage 10/day at level 17) or save-or-suffer spells. (like, hold person + hideous laughter + phantasmal killer + others in a device so they have to make many saves and pass all - though admittedly this is somewhat mitigated by how their base save never gets above 14+Stat... maybe.)Speaking of 14+Stat, there's never anything listed to determine the save DC of a weird science invention, either. Assumedly it's per the spell for the base DC, at least, but no governing statistic is ever listed.Now, I really like these guys and there's one potentially in my game now, so I'd kind of like to know whether this has gotten any official thought from the publisher, or what.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Imban, post: 4922819, member: 29206"] (This [b]might[/b] be better served on the Paizo forums, but honestly I don't really like them and don't have an account.) So, I really like the Tome of Secrets Artificer, except for how its main ability, the weird science inventions, works. (Or, uh, apparently doesn't.) While you're certainly limiting yourself if you choose to expend all of your inventions on one invention, it seems to have the potential for hideously stupid attacks - at level 9, an Artificer can handily make a "mage gun" that deals 20d4+20 damage with no hitroll required or save possible 6 times per day while still retaining all his possible 2nd and 3rd level spells for utility effects. At higher levels this can pretty much be repeated with area spells (50d6 fire or lightning damage 10/day at level 17) or save-or-suffer spells. (like, hold person + hideous laughter + phantasmal killer + others in a device so they have to make many saves and pass all - though admittedly this is somewhat mitigated by how their base save never gets above 14+Stat... maybe.) Speaking of 14+Stat, there's never anything listed to determine the save DC of a weird science invention, either. Assumedly it's per the spell for the base DC, at least, but no governing statistic is ever listed. Now, I really like these guys and there's one potentially in my game now, so I'd kind of like to know whether this has gotten any official thought from the publisher, or what. [/QUOTE]

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