Too Few Minions (4E)

[DEFCON 1]

I would agree with some above in saying rather than trying to "fix" minions by changing their rules (and thus just creating more bookkeeping for yourself)... just creat encounters that use lower level monsters, but just more of them. If you're level 3... instead of using a bunch of level 3 minions, use a handful of regular level 1 monsters.

You're still within enough levels that they will damage the party when they attack en masse, but they also have the hit point levels to actually sustain the fight for several rounds.

To me, minions are never meant to be used as an actual challenge, they are meant purely for flavor... for story purposes. For the times when the party is guarding the pass and has to stop the army's advance... and their bow and spell shots take out 2/3rds of the force as they advance up the hill before they then engage in hand-to-hand. Or when the swordfighter gets surrounded by a band of thugs and gets to show off his fighting prowess by taking them all on at once.

Use minions to make the party look cool... not to actually challenge their skills. Because that's not what I think they were originally designed for.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

To me, minions are never meant to be used as an actual challenge, they are meant purely for flavor... for story purposes. For the times when the party is guarding the pass and has to stop the army's advance... and their bow and spell shots take out 2/3rds of the force as they advance up the hill before they then engage in hand-to-hand. Or when the swordfighter gets surrounded by a band of thugs and gets to show off his fighting prowess by taking them all on at once.

Use minions to make the party look cool... not to actually challenge their skills. Because that's not what I think they were originally designed for.

I think minions are intented as a challenge - they require the PCs to take them down quick, and they provide an obstacle to reaching the enemies that _really_ count. But if you ignore them, they will hammer you down (but you need ~4 to get the work done of 1 regular monster). They bind the abilities of the Wizard at best, at worst the firepower of the Striker.

Of course, they also help the party look good, because if you manage to take them down, it just looks amazing - enemies dropping left and right, burning up in Fireshroudsor being blown through the air by Thundering Waves. No doubt about that. But don't discount these little amounts of damage piling up to bring down individual party members...

 

[Staffan]

I think minions are intented as a challenge - they require the PCs to take them down quick, and they provide an obstacle to reaching the enemies that _really_ count. But if you ignore them, they will hammer you down (but you need ~4 to get the work done of 1 regular monster). They bind the abilities of the Wizard at best, at worst the firepower of the Striker.

Yeah, minions pack a lot of firepower in each "4-pack." Look at the orcs for example.

An orc berserker is a level 4 brute, using +8 vs AC for 1d12+5 damage (average 11.5). They have 66 hp, which means a 4th level character will probably take them out in 5 hits or so.

An orc drudge is a level 4 minion, using +9 vs AC for 5 damage.

4 drudges do almost twice as much damage as a berserker. However, hitting the berserker generally won't reduce his damage output (unless your attack has some kind of rider), whereas each hit on a minion drops that minion, and thus reduces the damage output of that "minion cluster" by 25%.

 

[Alnag]

How about doubling the number of minions? Or perhaps just increase it by 50%. And with no increase in xp?

Sounds good to me. Although I think the XP is the last problem in design. Minions are cheap. Just make the combat fun. If it goes to smoothly for players just another bunch of minions trying to flank the group from behind...

 

[Jhaelen]

IMO, minions as written are too weak. If I want a minion of a particular race, I take one of the existing monsters and drop it to 1 HP. Keep the random damage, the chance of critical, etc. Sometimes even making 2 hit minions. Works great

Keeping the damage the same and allowing them to crit is abit over the top, I think.

Imho, the best use for minions is if high numbers of them synergize well with other monsters' abilities. A perfect example are kobold minions. All of the standard kobolds have ways to benefit from having minions around: Mob Attack, Incite Faith, Sly Dodge.