Too many cooks - the problem with Campaign Settings

[MerricB]

Once upon a time, there was a setting named The World of Greyhawk. It was primarily the vision of one man: Gary Gygax. He allowed a few others who shared his vision of the world to write for it. Then Gary moved away, not entirely willingly. Not at all!

The vision for the world continued with his successors, who didn't quite have the same vision that Gary had. No matter. It was still Greyhawk...

...and they were replaced, and the vision changed again...

...and again, and again...

What is the point of this story? Well, it is simply this: Campaign worlds are mainly personal things. They are the vision of one person, or the vision of a (closely-knit) group. The Forgotten Realms are as much Jeff Grubb's creation as Ed Greenwood's.

After the original designers of a setting are replaced, the successors are never quite have the same vision. Now, occasionally their vision is actually superior - but that doesn't always matter to the fans of the setting.

Who has read Isaac Asimov's "Foundation" books? Now, who has read the "The Second Foundation Trilogy" books written by Brin, Bear and Benford? Does anyone want to say that the vision is shared perfectly?

To take an even more awful example, the "Dune" books by Frank Herbert and those Dune books by Kevin J. Anderson...

I'm a long time fan of the World of Greyhawk, but I know that if I ever got around to writing books for it, my vision would be greatly different than 'canonical' Greyhawk, and from 'Gygaxian' Greyhawk.

In the end, all campaign settings face this problem: no man lives forever, so the original vision cannot be always there guiding new products. In the Real World, it doesn't even last that long!

There are other problems that relate to the longevity of campaign settings, but that is one of the most influential, I think.

Eberron is the child of Keith Baker and the Eberron team at Wizards of the Coast. While that team stays together you can expect a shared vision of Eberron - but all things must pass.

To expect otherwise is to expect something contrary to what experience tells us.

Cheers!

 

[trancejeremy]

I dunno if it will last even that long. If you look at Birthright, it was the product of TSR. But it couldn't keep certain simple continuity problems from cropping up almost immediately.

For instance, it had no drow, no psionics, and there were no hobgoblins or bugbears (in name, anyway, they were just called Goblins).

Yet almost immediately, you had in the supplements, people with psionics, drow, and bugbears/hobgoblins. The people at TSR apparently didn't even bother to read the campaign setting book, and no one bothered to check for continuity.

 

[sledged]

After the original designers of a setting are replaced, the successors are never quite have the same vision.

Thank goodness Dragonlance is still in the capable hands of Weis. Though Oddly enough, I don't see Hickman's name in the credits of the DLCS.

 

[Ranes]

I agree but it's inevitable. Anyway, consider that no vision survives contact with its audience. As soon as someone reads it, that individual's interpretation of the setting diverges from the author's, at least a little, so everyone ends up with their own vision with regard to it.

And there are occasions when we like to think we share the original author's vision but we don't. A rude awakening follows. When I got into Traveller, I quite liked Marc Miller's Imperium setting. It reminded me of the so-called 'golden age' of SF ('Sci-Fi', incidentally, was coined as a derogatory term for the genre and I wish its usage would die the death it so truly deserves) exemplified by Asimov, Heinlein, van Vogt, et al. But when Miller (I believed it was he) advanced the timeline and introduced a new meta-plot, I did not dig. It became apparent that my Imperium and Miller's were not one and the same; they were parallel universes.

Living campaigns may give the impression of a shared vision but they aren't. They are fragmented perspectives that function only because there's so little interaction - at the gaming table level - between regions.

Then there are next generation authors who come to work on established milieux and, as you say, cannot help but re-cast the original vision with their own perspectives. Sometimes we get interesting results. More often, we get, well, something else. Frankly if the next generation authors were really good, they wouldn't jump on their predecessors' bandwagons, would they?

 

[MerricB]

Thank goodness Dragonlance is still in the capable hands of Weis. Though Oddly enough, I don't see Hickman's name in the credits of the DLCS.

Indeed - however, the Dragonlance team no longer exists.

Dragonlance was the brainchild of Tracy Hickman, the books written by Hickman and Weis, and the modules by Tracy Hickman, Douglas Niles, Harold Johnson, Michael Dobson, Jeff Grubb, Laura Hickman and Bruce Heard - though primarily Niles and Hickman - and the artwork by Easley, Elmore, Parkinson and Caldwell. (And several others contributing along the way).

That team no longer exists. So, even though Weis has a role in ongoing DL development, without Tracy Hickman, I don't think DL is quite as the original.

And there are occasions when we like to think we share the original author's vision but we don't. A rude awakening follows. When I got into Traveller, I quite liked Marc Miller's Imperium setting. It reminded me of the so-called 'golden age' of SF ('Sci-Fi', incidentally, was coined as a derogatory term for the genre and I wish its usage would die the death it so truly deserves) exemplified by Asimov, Heinlein, van Vogt, et al. But when Miller (I believed it was he) advanced the timeline and introduced a new meta-plot, I did not dig. It became apparent that my Imperium and Miller's were not one and the same; they were parallel universes.

Absolutely. How many people here have become disenchanted with a series of fantasy or science fiction novels as they've continued?

Cheers!

 

[Coreyartus]

Absolutely. How many people here have become disenchanted with a series of fantasy or science fiction novels as they've continued?

Shannara. I read the first one in junior high, and the one that followed was pretty good, but shortly thereafter, the whole thing turned into blatant commercialism... I never picked up any of the books after that... Quite a let down.

As far as settings go, Eberron will blossom for a while, and then the general consumer will rapidly grow tired of it as their Cummulative-Attention-Deficit-Disorder (CADD) kicks in and they move onto the next shiney project that catches their eye. Personally, I can't afford to invest in an Eberron line with the potential for draining my wallet like what they've created for Forgotten Realms. I like to blame my non-interest in FR on the fact that there's just too many sourcebooks now. I'll just stick to tried and true Greyhawk. And one other non-WotC setting that I fell in love with.

WotC walks a fine line--if they dedicate too much of their identity on their "new idea" they run the risk alienating all of the folks who have invested in their other campaigns. But if they don't flesh Eberron out to its full potential, they'll be accused of slighting it and playing too close to the cuff.

I have to admit, the idea of ponying up for yet another campaign setting in the vast sea of campaign settings that exist today (both WotC and non-WotC) just isn't appealling, regardless of how much source material or adventures accompany it. I've already committed to my two, and that's expensive enough. Finding the time to actually USE another campaign setting is not in the cards.

Coreyartus

 

[Whimsical]

I prefer 3rd season Star Trek: Next Generation over 1st and 2nd, and 3rd season was when Gene Roddenberry stopped having any influence over the show, whereas the first and second seasons were his baby.

Consequently, I believe that George Lucas is not the best person to write for Star Wars. That there are people who can do it better ("better", of couse, meaning "the way I like it.")

 

[Patman21967]

Heretic....Lucas rules...JK....I spent my money on Wheel of Time RPG, and have yet to play, since noone in my gaming group has read the novels....for XMas I bought them all the first 2....If Martins Fire and Ice ever comes out, I may buy that...but for now, we use FR or homebrews....All the crap costs too much money....I need to save it for hookers....I mean girlfriends...I mean beer...mmmmmm beer

 

[KenM]

If WOTC or some other big game company came up to you and said "We love your homebrew setting, we want to publish it and promote it, wi'll give you $100,000 (what the winner of WOTC setting got). But, you have to sign away all creative rights from now own and have no input into what goes into it after we get it." How many people could say no to that much money?

 

[Alzrius]

What's the big deal if a new development team takes over a setting? Sure, the "vision" of the setting changes, but that doesn't necessarily mean things will get worse. I like the way Greyhawk is now, and I know I'd actively hate the Forgotten Realms if it had stayed solely under the purview of Ed Greenwood. Change is good; take it as it is, and move on.