D&D 4E Too many settings for 4E?

[Glyfair]

I've been keeping an eye on various 4E discussions. One of the things I've noticed about the 3rd party discussion is that most of the 3rd party companies are planning or considering putting out their own setting for 4E.

I really thing that isn't going to be a good thing in the long run. I know a lot of people's reaction is going to be "...but more choices are a good thing." At the level, I agree. However, that ignores their overall effect.

All of the companies involved have shown their ability to put out quality products (even if some of them might not be considered to do it consistently). They also are aware that to stand out from the crowd, even the expected to be narrow 4E crowd, they need to do something different. That's going to lead to a lot of compatibility issues with 4E materials.

Once the initial setting wave is over you'll eventually see the adventure and sourcebook products make their way out. However, most groups will be sticking with one or maybe two settings. With the emphasis I'm seeing on "different" you'll find that most adventures (and to a lesser extent supplements) of quality will have a hard time fitting into other settings. I think that will have some effect of limiting the usefulness of most books to people who decide to use those settings.

Now, I know there are those who aren't concerned with that. They can modify the adventures, supplements, etc. to fit the world. However, I believe that most who are interested in these sort of supplements tend to be less interested in adding to their workload by some heavy adaption. They are usually buying the products to reduce their workload (especially adventures).

Now, this might not be too bad. If the companies take this into account and make sure their "different" settings are mostly compatible with the core assumptions (and thus most products that are released) it can easily be a non-issue. Even if the companies decide to do this, it's a fine line between "different but compatible" and "the same old thing."

Sure, I think it will be great if Pelgrane Press puts out a 4E setting designed by Robin Laws (especially if it borrows ideas from his GUMSHOE system). Still, the sheer number of different things out there may make using other 3rd party products with the setting.

Thoughts?

 

[Fallen Seraph]

If the setting books do not take away from actual RULE-books then I am perfectly fine with many different setting books. Will I use the settings as they are written most likely not, but will I gain ideas and insight into where to take my own setting definitely. So in that regard I am fine with it, along as I said above it doesn't interfere with mainly rule-oriented books.

 

[Voss]

Most third party companies will quickly put out a bunch of stuff that won't sell and they'll fail. Then it will shrink back down to reasonable levels again.

Really, in the long run, there are only a few companies that can play in the big pool. Personally, I rarely pick up third party products, and almost never for actual rules. They usually don't mesh well with the core rules (being balanced, if they are at all, to a different point), and it isn't usually worth trying to convince a DM to shoe-horn anything into his campaign.

But, we saw the d20 companies expand and then collapse during the early days of third. I don't think it will happen to that extent again- convincing people there is actually real money to be made in the RPG market is a bit harder now.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Which third party companies are doing this? I see Freeport from Green Ronin, which has an established track record, and will be fine. I see FFG doing something, which I think most people believe is Midnight, which again has an established track record.

What's the issue here?

 

[catsclaw227]

I've been keeping an eye on various 4E discussions. One of the things I've noticed about the 3rd party discussion is that most of the 3rd party companies are planning or considering putting out their own setting for 4E.

I really thing that isn't going to be a good thing in the long run. I know a lot of people's reaction is going to be "...but more choices are a good thing." At the level, I agree. However, that ignores their overall effect.

All of the companies involved have shown their ability to put out quality products (even if some of them might not be considered to do it consistently). They also are aware that to stand out from the crowd, even the expected to be narrow 4E crowd, they need to do something different. That's going to lead to a lot of compatibility issues with 4E materials.

Do we have a list somewhere of who has confirmed what products? That list would be quite helpful. I am not sure who has actually stated that they're developing a 4e campaign setting, but I would love to know who is seriously considering it.

Most third party companies will quickly put out a bunch of stuff that won't sell and they'll fail. Then it will shrink back down to reasonable levels again.

Really, in the long run, there are only a few companies that can play in the big pool. Personally, I rarely pick up third party products, and almost never for actual rules. They usually don't mesh well with the core rules (being balanced, if they are at all, to a different point), and it isn't usually worth trying to convince a DM to shoe-horn anything into his campaign.

But, we saw the d20 companies expand and then collapse during the early days of third. I don't think it will happen to that extent again- convincing people there is actually real money to be made in the RPG market is a bit harder now.

Well, one of the problems with the 3rd party market in 3.0 was the glut of bad stuff that unfortunately pushed some really good companies out of d20 development. Bastion Press, Mystic Eye and Monkeygod (though Highmoon media is selling their old stock of adventures) for example.

I don't think we'll have as nasty a run of bad products this time around, though during the ramp-up of 3rd party products this summer and fall we may see a couple of stinkers by good companies as they wiggle around in the development learning curve for 4e rules. This doesn't mean that they'll continue to suck with further products, but those first one or two books will be key.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Didn't this happen with 3E? I seem to remember a heck of a lot of 3E settings out, near the beginning, and most of them were deeply ignorable.

I understand the worry about "specialized" adventures being incompatible, but I don't think that's going to be a major issue, simply because, whilst a "new and different" setting may well be helpful to sales of said setting, making specialized adventures that only have the potential to appeal to a very small percentage of the market is bad business, and thus most of the adventures we'll see in the early, confused period will be more "generic". Maybe this will lower their quality, maybe it won't. I think most of Paizo's stuff has a kinda "generic" setting yet is usually excellent.

I also think that WotC's "$5000 2 play" deal, for better or worse, will make the market initially narrow, and so we won't see y'know, a dozen new third-party settings, more like two to four, I'd guess.

Slightly off-topic: Is Robin Laws really writing a setting for 4E? Man, that's one to keep an eye on, if so!

 

[Agamon]

Funny thing is, I have an awesome idea for a homebrew. So much so, the M&M game I've been anticipating on starting soon for more than a year may go on the backburner.

And then there's the published setting I'd play if I were to play a published setting: Golarion, which may or may not play nice with the 4E rules.

 

[Glyfair]

Slightly off-topic: Is Robin Laws really writing a setting for 4E? Man, that's one to keep an eye on, if so!

Based on Simon Rogers blog, it seems like Pelgrane Press is at least considering getting on the 4E bandwagon. Simon posted a theoretical "If a company decided to pay the $5000, what sort of product should they released?" question. The discussion was heavily focused on settings (and I've seen similar discussions with other company's boards discussing 4E).

Since Robin Laws is closely associated with Pelgrane Press it seemed logical to throw him out as a likely developer of such a setting. Nothing announced, just a hypothetical example that has some foundation.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

Which settings have been announced? Necromancer Games is putting out a players handbook to add back in things that will be left out. Paizo is still weighing options, but they are pretty invested in Golarion (coool setting by the way). I'm not aware of any other major setting plans, but I'm curious.

 

[Gundark]

I really don't want to see a bunch of FR/Greyhawk clones.

The setting has to be different to gain my attention, Midnight and Iron Kingdoms are examples of something that is different.

There has to be a big premise that grabs my attention, something like Kingdoms of Kalimar or Dawnforge isn't sufficient. I played a little Dawnforge, and yeah it's different...it's just not different enough.

So for example, if Paizo fleshes out the world that their Pathfinder series is set it and publishes it as a setting book it'll get a big "meh" from me despite their reputation for putting out quality stuff.