Tools of Two Trades (Weapliment Expertise) Article Up

[Mouseferatu]

I'm rather curious as to how often Wizards thinks players need to roll Diplomacy checks right after hitting with an At-Will attack.

Well, all the time, obviously.

*thump*

Oh, I'm so sorry!

*whack*

Oh, dear. Excuse me!

*stab*

Forgive me, I'm such a klutz!

You mean your games don't go that way? You must be playing wrong!

 

[Grydan]

...now I want to go back to playing an Arcane character, just to take that feat and be better at doing just that.

 

[Destil]

My half-elf bard already has +17 to diplomacy at 7th, or +22 once an encounter. Do I really need another +2 at this point.

I mean, if she's gotta stab some fool to get it first she's cool with that and all. Just trying to think of the last time I actually failed a check.

 

[Riastlin]

I'm rather curious as to how often Wizards thinks players need to roll Diplomacy checks right after hitting with an At-Will attack.

Agreed. It might actually make sense if you were to change it to Intimidate instead of Diplomacy since you could actually use Intimidate in combat. The arcana is also potentially useful if the DM likes to throw traps, hazards, mini SC's etc. at the party during combat.

 

[Obryn]

I'm rather curious as to how often Wizards thinks players need to roll Diplomacy checks right after hitting with an At-Will attack.

True! However, the real point of the feat is, "I get +1/+2/+3 to-hit with all my Arcane and Basic attacks!" I'd say that's worth the feat regardless. The rider is just ... screwy.

-O

 

[Kzach]

I think one of the things people are overlooking in this thread is that these feats only serve to solve ONE of the aspects of weapon vs. implement design (and even then, doesn't solve them well).

Sure, it's a problem that you often need to either specialise in weapon-only or implement-only attacks (hard to do, hence the complaints), but the other aspects of weapon vs. implement design are having to switch in mid-combat and having to maintain two sets of items.

The item economy in 4e is finitely balanced. As any ranger player will tell you, maintaining two swords becomes a problem very early on in the character's life. Having to maintain both a weapon and an implement becomes a headache by as early as late heroic.

Then there's item switching in mid-combat. There's a reason why charop builds favour items that grant free item switching. A minor to put away and a minor to draw is just freaking annoying.

All of this is poor design. I have no idea why Wizards are so married to the concept of keeping weapons and implements separate. It's plainly obvious that it doesn't freaking work and is pissing off the majority of the player-base. The easiest answer in the world is to simply allow weapons to be used as implements, just minus the proficiency bonus. If you're that dead keen on keeping implements around, then allow wielders to make melee basic and ranged basic attacks with them; better yet, kill two birds with one stone and give all classes access to a class specific melee basic and ranged basic attack as a freebie based on the classes primary stat.

EDIT: Ooh, why not allow implements to be used as weapons? A wand could be a poor man's dagger. A rod could be crappy club, an orb... an orb could be... err... umm... let me get back to you on that one.

 

[Delgar]

Thankfully I don't have to deal with this in my campaign, but I'd houserule it that whatever weapon they use, they could also use as an impliment just to keep it simple.

Whatever happened to KISS anyway, wasn't that one of the goals of 4th edition?

 

[Zaran]

Maybe they think KISS only applies to those who play essentials and don't need these feats.

 

[Osgood]

I'm rather curious as to how often Wizards thinks players need to roll Diplomacy checks right after hitting with an At-Will attack.

It's for the ladies.... "Hey baby, did you see how well I handled my staff just now?"

 

[DonAdam]

These are way clunkier than the expertise feats that appears in the Essentials books. Too many fiddly bits.

The two-handed + holy symbol one is terrible for avengers, who have almost no ranged area attacks.