Tools of Two Trades (Weapliment Expertise) Article Up

[Zaran]

Im not good at finding old posts but werent users hollering that wotc never had play tests like paizo? Now people want to complain???????

I don't think anyone here is saying "They shouldn't use play tests". I think it's great that we get to tell them that these feats need ALOT of work.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Yes but all those people are wrong.

the only people who are wrong are people belittleing wotc

 

[mkill]

I'm rather curious as to how often Wizards thinks players need to roll Diplomacy checks right after hitting with an At-Will attack.

I'm worried about encouragement the other way around: How often do you want PC's to smack the NPC first for a +2 bonus when the DM calls for a Diplomacy check?

 

[Neonchameleon]

I'm worried about encouragement the other way around: How often do you want PC's to smack the NPC first for a +2 bonus when the DM calls for a Diplomacy check?

The synergy I see is Vicious Mockery - mock one person then diplomacy to make everyone else laugh.

 

[Matt James]

I'm worried about encouragement the other way around: How often do you want PC's to smack the NPC first for a +2 bonus when the DM calls for a Diplomacy check?

lol -- I thought the same thing

"No, we'll not deal with your kind around here!"

WHAP!

"Okay, on second thought--what you're saying does make sense. Let's chat."

 

[Ferghis]

The whole Expertise feat concept should just go away. Nobody actually needs to bonuses except to keep up with the other guy that already has them.

I agree wholeheartedly. I love the riders, but there was no real need to fix the math. I'm not arguing with the fact that higher level characters might miss a bit more often than lower level characters in theory. It's that in practice it's false. Further, even without expertise, an the average even fight for most characters is against a level+2 monster.

The only people left out in the cold by my reckoning are hybrids and people with power swap feats.

That's not a small number of people to leave out in the cold.

Benefit: When you are using a holy symbol and wielding a melee weapon with which you are proficient, you gain a +1 feat bonus to weapon attack
rolls you make with the weapon and a +1 feat bonus to implement attack rolls you make with the holy symbol

From Devoted Priest Expertise. That covers all the divine classes.

Well, not really. My elf-cleric is a divine class that uses a ranged weapon. She's not covered.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

The whole Expertise feat concept should just go away. Nobody actually needs to bonuses except to keep up with the other guy that already has them.

Agreed, math fixes should be on the monster side.

 

[Spatula]

I am just disappointed that this was the direction that WotC chose to approach the problem from. They are so damned specific, leaving out all sorts of implement choices or weapons that function as implements (unless you're a warlock, I guess).

Just re-publish Versatile Expertise as +1/2/3 to hit to both weapon and implement attacks at levels 1/11/21. Then publish Versatile Focus that gives +1/2/3 damage at levels 1/11/21 for both weapon and implement attacks. That's all that's needed. If the expertise feat needs a rider, make it a free action to switch between weapon & implement 1/round.

I feel like the issue was over-complicated just to have a longer article with more words.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

The other issue, as someone pointed out, is that in the game's assumed economy, keeping two attack items up to par can be fairly tough on your resources.

At the crux of the issue are classes that have both weapon and implement powers and assume or force you to take a mix of both. Since we know that design choice isn't going away any time soon, it would have been nice to see that addressed. Hexblade addressed that issue nicely, but we know they aren't going to go back and change all the old classes.

I do like some of these feats, at least in concept, but the complaints many of the posters here have are valid.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The other issue, as someone pointed out, is that in the game's assumed economy, keeping two attack items up to par can be fairly tough on your resources.

Well, you're right to an extent. OTOH the cost curve on items is so steep that if you don't mind having the lesser enchantment on each one or even maybe one of them having a 1 less enhancement then you're all set. The place it really hurts is the guy that has 90% weapon powers and 10% implement powers or something like that.

At the crux of the issue are classes that have both weapon and implement powers and assume or force you to take a mix of both. Since we know that design choice isn't going away any time soon, it would have been nice to see that addressed. Hexblade addressed that issue nicely, but we know they aren't going to go back and change all the old classes.

At least you do have weaplements. That can restrict what enchantments you can get on your item, but a Crusader's Mace for instance is a perfectly good option for most STR clerics, who will undoubtedly want an implement on a regular basis. It isn't perfect, but the need hasn't been totally ignored.

I do like some of these feats, at least in concept, but the complaints many of the posters here have are valid.

Yeah, the whole thing was a bit of a misstep for WotC really. Eh, it is the ugly navel of the whole system really, and if that's the worst fault it has I can live with it.