D&D 4E Top 5 Encounter Powers That Need Fixing in 4e

[Saeviomagy]

Yes, it made me realize something. The 4E designers think they got rid of system mastery by writing up the little blurbs at the start of the class write ups. In a sense they have, if you restrict your view of how the system will be used to be exclusively for 1st level disposable characters used at game day events.

In my opinion, the builds presented in those sections only worsen system mastery issues, because half of them suck. And there's nothing worse for a novice than bad advice.

 

[blargney the second]

The 4E designers think they got rid of system mastery by writing up the little blurbs at the start of the class write ups.

What's your source for that?

Anyways, they had the exact same things in the 3e PHB.
-blarg

 

[Storminator]

I actually think that system mastery was greatly reduced by the breaking up of feat trees and PrC requirements.

In 3e to make a strong 10th level PC, you have to start planning level 10 choices by 2nd or 3rd level, and sometimes at 1st. In 4e you can make a pretty solid PC without planning a single level in advance.

PS

 

[Regicide]

In 3e to make a strong 10th level PC, you have to start planning level 10 choices by 2nd or 3rd level, and sometimes at 1st. In 4e you can make a pretty solid PC without planning a single level in advance.

I would say exactly the reverse. In fact in 4E it rewards system mastery so much that you're rewarded for considering powers feats and magic items YOUR PARTY takes as well when you're picking yours.

 

[keterys]

I lose track sometimes, but wouldn't whichever way cast 4e in a worse light be your current operating theory, Regicide?

Retraining every level is extremely helpful for avoiding the 'oh I didn't figure my character out six levels in advance' issue. With a few exceptions powers and feats and even classes and such are _much_ closer in terms of balance.

I'm not sure that parties can achieve greater synergy in 4e, so much as that it's more desirable and/or required. I'm pretty sure that when I had a character that made the entire party immune to all energies and death effects and gave everyone +6 to a couple stats in 3e that was a pretty solid example of party synergy and planning... I can't imagine there's anything really stronger in 4e than that level of buffing.

 

[Regicide]

I lose track sometimes, but wouldn't whichever way cast 4e in a worse light be your current operating theory, Regicide?

I haven't stated either way that system mastery is good or bad. I'm pretty unimpressed with game devs that state they're going to get rid of it then end up with this however.

Retraining every level is extremely helpful for avoiding the 'oh I didn't figure my character out six levels in advance' issue. With a few exceptions powers and feats and even classes and such are _much_ closer in terms of balance.

Yes, it's a good thing they didn't drop 3E's retraining.

I'm not sure that parties can achieve greater synergy in 4e, so much as that it's more desirable and/or required.

I am. It's now possible, in an average party, for every party member to stun, or debuff a particular stat and stack those debuffs, not to mention setting up zones for pushes and pulls. It is dramatically different the power level of a party that works together in combat and one that doesn't, and for the exact same reason it's dramatically different in power level for a party to pick powers together than not.

I'm pretty sure that when I had a character that made the entire party immune to all energies and death effects and gave everyone +6 to a couple stats in 3e that was a pretty solid example of party synergy and planning... I can't imagine there's anything really stronger in 4e than that level of buffing.

Your cleric casting a couple buff spells is what you consider synergizing?

 

[keterys]

You don't think a single character making the rest of the party, say, twice as effective is a synergy, but _do_ think people just alternating who stuns someone is? Interesting.

Like I said - it wasn't necessary - instead of someone being stunned every round, they just died when someone did a full attack with power attack or a save or die effect. You _could_ pile on those effects, though. Someone could give someone a -10 to a save, then follow it up with a save or die. Or you could just kill them. Poof.

 

[keterys]

Fwiw, I'm very much not a fan of system mastery. I'd like all the choices to be reasonable and for there to be a lot of pretty balanced variance amongst people taking a class, race, etc.

I think ability scores are overemphasized, hit bonuses too important, certain status effects misbalanced, and feats just make me sad for what they could be vs. what they generally are.

 

[cdrcjsn]

I haven't stated either way that system mastery is good or bad. I'm pretty unimpressed with game devs that state they're going to get rid of it then end up with this however.

I'm impressed. Out of hundreds of encounter powers, I could only find less than 10 that I would consider broken in terms of their relative power level. And some of those (the multi-attack ones) need several other supporting items or powers to make them really overpowered.

4e has changed the definition of broken from "this character can end this encounter by himself" to "this character can kill this one monster by himself with the aid of party members" which is a huge step in the direction of reducing power imbalances between party members due to system mastery.

The system still isn't perfect (stunlocking Solos in particular need to be addressed), but by and large, they succeeded in their goal of reducing system mastery. You CAN play without bothering to plan your character out for 20 levels, and won't have your character be greatly overshadowed by another person who meticulously plan their feats, powers and items. The other person will still have a slight advantage, but it won't be a glaring one.

 

[Storminator]

You CAN play without bothering to plan your character out for 20 levels, and won't have your character be greatly overshadowed by another person who meticulously plan their feats, powers and items. The other person will still have a slight advantage, but it won't be a glaring one.

I would say that the meticulously planned character will be overshadowed if the unplanned PC's player makes consistently better decisions during the combat. I consider that a plus, but then I tend to do quite well deciding in the heat of the moment. Perhaps it's just that 4e system effects match well to my play style.

PS