Torchbearer 2nd ed Kickstarter


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@polyhedral man wondering what it was that you felt was pretentious or patronising?

I don't think anyone would argue about that first video being uninformative, but I just wrote it off as a gag by people more interested in getting the information out with methods they were comfortable with instead of trying to produce a high quality informative video in the midst of a pandemic.

@Nytmare, it was the last 3 questions of the FAQ.
I was actually very passionate about Torchbearer, and although i thought it was too soon for a 2nd edition i was ready to justify it. Then you watch the video, and initially you think this is like the studio brand before a trailer. Then it takes far too long, and it is followed by yet another symbol. At this point i fast forwarded and realised that there was no info about the game. I'm like ok, let me go to the FAQ section to hopefully find out more info about differences between 1st and 2nd ed.


Q:
The project video and/or the music offends me.

A:
"Excellent! We have cast warding runes over this project and they have worked! You have been warned. We are serious weirdos. We are serious about the images in that video and the music playing behind them. If the warding sigils and sounds drive you away, it is for your own safety."

Q:
Your layout bothers me
A:
"Cool! Over the past 18 years, we have won multiple awards—Golden Geeks, Origins, etc.—for design and production of roleplaying games. We will take your opinion into consideration."

...so after they've just wasted people's time, they first make mocking, and ironic comments - which comes across as negative and completely unnecessary.. then they imply that there is an occult practice going on, which i'm not cool with. And then they're patronising people that have just dedicated time to find out about their project, and tell them that they should go away, since "it's for their protection". Well i'll give them that, if the intent of the "warding sigils" was to drive customers away, they clearly succeeded in my case.

Finally, they show contempt for people giving them feedback for the layout. "Cool!" Actually, not cool at all friends... (And the funny thing is i like the layout from 1st ed...)

I'm clearly in the minority, since the project has been very successful. And it doesn't surprise me, judging from the 1st ed, this will likely be a good product.
But from my point of view while i don't expect the company that is selling me a product to agree with me on everything. At the very bare minimum, i expect them to be respectful towards their customers. And they patently aren't. It's quite sad, but it gave me a new appreciation for branding if it stops creatives from alienating their own audience.
 

Aldarc

Legend
In general, I'm pretty impressed by what I have seen of Torchbearer, but it's probably one of those absolutely great games that aren't really for me or the people I often play with.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
@Nytmare, it was the last 3 questions of the FAQ.
I was actually very passionate about Torchbearer, and although i thought it was too soon for a 2nd edition i was ready to justify it. Then you watch the video, and initially you think this is like the studio brand before a trailer. Then it takes far too long, and it is followed by yet another symbol. At this point i fast forwarded and realised that there was no info about the game. I'm like ok, let me go to the FAQ section to hopefully find out more info about differences between 1st and 2nd ed.


Q:
The project video and/or the music offends me.

A:
"Excellent! We have cast warding runes over this project and they have worked! You have been warned. We are serious weirdos. We are serious about the images in that video and the music playing behind them. If the warding sigils and sounds drive you away, it is for your own safety."

Q:
Your layout bothers me
A:
"Cool! Over the past 18 years, we have won multiple awards—Golden Geeks, Origins, etc.—for design and production of roleplaying games. We will take your opinion into consideration."

...so after they've just wasted people's time, they first make mocking, and ironic comments - which comes across as negative and completely unnecessary.. then they imply that there is an occult practice going on, which i'm not cool with. And then they're patronising people that have just dedicated time to find out about their project, and tell them that they should go away, since "it's for their protection". Well i'll give them that, if the intent of the "warding sigils" was to drive customers away, they clearly succeeded in my case.

Finally, they show contempt for people giving them feedback for the layout. "Cool!" Actually, not cool at all friends... (And the funny thing is i like the layout from 1st ed...)

I'm clearly in the minority, since the project has been very successful. And it doesn't surprise me, judging from the 1st ed, this will likely be a good product.
But from my point of view while i don't expect the company that is selling me a product to agree with me on everything. At the very bare minimum, i expect them to be respectful towards their customers. And they patently aren't. It's quite sad, but it gave me a new appreciation for branding if it stops creatives from alienating their own audience.
I thought it was quite funny, and it clearly appeals to a whole bunch of people.
 

Eyes of Nine

Everything's Fine
@Nytmare, it was the last 3 questions of the FAQ.
I was actually very passionate about Torchbearer, and although i thought it was too soon for a 2nd edition i was ready to justify it. Then you watch the video, and initially you think this is like the studio brand before a trailer. Then it takes far too long, and it is followed by yet another symbol. At this point i fast forwarded and realised that there was no info about the game. I'm like ok, let me go to the FAQ section to hopefully find out more info about differences between 1st and 2nd ed.


Q:
The project video and/or the music offends me.

A:
"Excellent! We have cast warding runes over this project and they have worked! You have been warned. We are serious weirdos. We are serious about the images in that video and the music playing behind them. If the warding sigils and sounds drive you away, it is for your own safety."

Q:
Your layout bothers me
A:
"Cool! Over the past 18 years, we have won multiple awards—Golden Geeks, Origins, etc.—for design and production of roleplaying games. We will take your opinion into consideration."

...so after they've just wasted people's time, they first make mocking, and ironic comments - which comes across as negative and completely unnecessary.. then they imply that there is an occult practice going on, which i'm not cool with. And then they're patronising people that have just dedicated time to find out about their project, and tell them that they should go away, since "it's for their protection". Well i'll give them that, if the intent of the "warding sigils" was to drive customers away, they clearly succeeded in my case.

Finally, they show contempt for people giving them feedback for the layout. "Cool!" Actually, not cool at all friends... (And the funny thing is i like the layout from 1st ed...)

I'm clearly in the minority, since the project has been very successful. And it doesn't surprise me, judging from the 1st ed, this will likely be a good product.
But from my point of view while i don't expect the company that is selling me a product to agree with me on everything. At the very bare minimum, i expect them to be respectful towards their customers. And they patently aren't. It's quite sad, but it gave me a new appreciation for branding if it stops creatives from alienating their own audience.

At the very bare minimum, i expect them to be respectful towards their customers.

Based on the rest of your post, sounds like technically, you won't be one of their customers... It must be a new tactic - pre-emptive rudeness to non-customers...
 

I'm clearly in the minority, since the project has been very successful. And it doesn't surprise me, judging from the 1st ed, this will likely be a good product.
But from my point of view while i don't expect the company that is selling me a product to agree with me on everything. At the very bare minimum, i expect them to be respectful towards their customers. And they patently aren't. It's quite sad, but it gave me a new appreciation for branding if it stops creatives from alienating their own audience.

That's interesting, but I find the ton of snark to be one of the funny and enjoyable things about the BWHQ guys and the projects they captain. I think the warding runes do work in this case, because if the tone in the FAQ puts you off, I don't expect the tone in the actual books to make you feel any better.
 


@Eyes of Nine yeah so i thought i'd post to share my enthusiasm for this innovative marketing approach!

That's interesting, but I find the ton of snark to be one of the funny and enjoyable things about the BWHQ guys and the projects they captain. I think the warding runes do work in this case, because if the tone in the FAQ puts you off, I don't expect the tone in the actual books to make you feel any better.

Heh, i guess it's convenient to blame it on me being too sensitive. Having said that, i've gone through the 1st ed book in a lot of detail, and i had zero problems with it, quite the contrary. Tone in the product is one thing, marketing comms is another. You can choose to elevate snark and bad manners to be a merit, and that's entirely up to you, but i am of a different opinion.
 

You can choose to elevate snark and bad manners to be a merit, and that's entirely up to you, but i am of a different opinion.

And there are lots of companies around catering to you as the main audience and building their communication with that in mind, just not the BWHQ guys. As you made a point of saying how that makes their campaign worse for you, I decided (as someone who is backing this project) to drop here to say how I find the way they communicate more funny than bad-mannered. YMMV, as always.
 

And there are lots of companies around catering to you as the main audience and building their communication with that in mind, just not the BWHQ guys. As you made a point of saying how that makes their campaign worse for you, I decided (as someone who is backing this project) to drop here to say how I find the way they communicate more funny than bad-mannered. YMMV, as always.

That's a fair point, i appreciate what you're saying.
 

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