As I posted in this thread, I recently got my Torchbearer 2nd ed books and have been working through them. This afternoon I decided to run it a bit, to see how it plays.
The recommended group size is four to five (3-4 players plus a GM). I roped one of my daughters into my plan, but the other wasn't interested. I outlined the basic stock-and-class options, and she was a bit unsure, and I suggested that a warrior-type and a wizard-type is generally a good party default. So she built two PCs: the Dwarven Outcast Tharin and the human Magician Gondolf. (In the other thread @AbdulAlhzared noted the Outcast-Thorin Oakenshield affinity.)
PC building took about an hour, which was longer than I had anticipated. I think it would be quicker with players who are more familiar with basic FRPG conventions and more likely to have quick responses to questions about the sort of PC they want to play. At various points I made suggestions to help move things along - which is why Tharin's home is the Dwarven Halls and Gondolf's a Wizard's Tower. She chose her own weapons and armour - a staff for Gondolf because they're cool, and a spear and helmet for Tharin (I didn't both taking her through the weapon list or modifiers but just told her to choose a mediaeval weapon she though would suit Tharin, as they all balance out in a rock-paper-scissors sort of way).
Answering the Nature and background questions had Tharin with Nature 5 and an orphan wearing a silver chain memento about his neck. He has a friend, a mentor and an enemy but we postponed detailing these personae for another time.
Gondolf, on the other hand, had Nature 3 but with Wizard's Sight at level 2 and Dwarf-wise. Gondolf has parents, and many friends but no enemies - his specialty is Cook and he makes friends that way! - and as a mentor the famed wizard Maila who appears in the background of a couple of adventures in the Cartographer's Compendium, and who was my suggestion as a mentor to help ease the way into the adventure I wanted to run. The roll for spells revealed that Maila (and hence Gondolf) is an illusionist. He memorised Wyrd Lights (the system's version of Dancing Lights) - this was my suggestion as to the most generically useful of the three spells Wyrd Lights, Arcane Semblance (Disguise Self) and Celestial Music (sort-of like Hypnotic Pattern).
I suggested that she choose a Wise for each character that complements the other, so Gondolf chose Darkness-wise and Tharin Ancient Secrets-wise.
When it came to equipping the PCs, I explained the slot system, and then she chose a backpack for Gondolf and a satchel for Tharin. I then suggested gear which she dutifully wrote down. (I overlooked a grappling hook, which was a mistake that may end up being costly. Apologies to my daughter! Normally I would expect players to equip their own PCs, but this was a place where it could have really bogged down when someone doesn't know either the detailed rules or even the D&D-ish conventions.)
She then chose Beliefs and Instincts, again with a bit of help. Tharin's Belief is, If in doubt, poke it (by default with his spear) and his Instinct is to always repair ny helmet in camp. Gondolf's Belief is something like One should never act in haste and his instinct is to Read everything I see. I read the brief background to the Tower of Stars adventure (the first in the Compendium) selecting the option of having been sent by Maila to find out what has happened to Beholder of Fates. This dictated a goal for Gondolf, chosen from the list in the book - I will discover what befell the Beholder of Fates - and then I read the other three options and she chose the one for Tharin that made him seem the least like a bady guy - I will protect my friends from the insidious traps that lie within, as opposed to ones about looting and raiding.
We then started. Our play lasted a bit over another hour. In that time we got through 7 turns, or about one every 10 minutes. At the end of the session 9 advancement "ticks" had been made - one for each check that marked out the turns, plus one for an Instinct (Gondolf tried but failed to read an arcane sigil) and one each during a conflict. Those 7 turns involved an initial entry into the tower up the scree slope (successful Dungeoneer), then looking around the ground level including nearly falling down a crevice while trying to read the sigil (failed Lore Master, with a twist taken from the module list of suggested twists, then a successful Health check), then climbing up to the next level (successful Dungeoneer to use rope and spikes to climb up to the crack in the ceiling, then failed Dungeoneer to squeeze through - with the Exhausted condition as a consequence). This marked 4 turns (3 Dungeoneering, 1 Health) and so the PCs were hungry and thirsty. They drank their water in the next level of the tower.
This level - room 3 in the module - is confusingly described. When I first read it a week or two ago I struggled to work it all out, but had forgotten the issues until today when I encountered them again! But I did manage to describe the corpse, and so Tharin poked it. In the adventure it suggested Healing to examine the corpse, but poking it seemed more like Scouting to me. I set the obstacle at 3 or 4 (memory fails me), with a +1 Ob because (as per the room description) the PCs had stirred up the dust in the room. With Scout 2 Tharin couldn't succeed, so I suggested this was a good time to be disadvantaged by a Trait (being Born of Earth and Stone, Tharin is not very enthusiastic about human corpses). This was the only check earned in the session.
I looked up the list of suggested twists again and saw the ley line-mutated moles (statted up as Troll Rats) and thought that looked good, so described 3 of them coming out from where they were nesting under and/or in the dead body. I then outlined the conflict rules, and explained the difference between killing and driving off. My daughter decided that Tharin wanted to drive the moles off (assisted by Gondolf).
The disposition rolls went better for Tharin than my moles, so it was 8 (4 hp each) vs my 5 hp spread over 3 mutant moles. I looked at my moles' instinct - Always steal shiny objects for the next - and thought that Tharin's chain was probably glinting in the torchlight. So I scripted M/D/A, the logic being to manoeuvre for position (ie climb up the dwarf to his neck), then dodge him, then grab the chain and run off (and I would angle for this is any compromise).
Then my daughter scripted A/D/A.
Her first roll was 3 successes over mine, plus 2 for the Might difference, but then I remembered the +1 Ob penalty for the dust and so the net margin was only 4, which knocked away two of the moles but left a last one. D vs D is an Ob 3 test for both, which both Gondolf and the mole failed. Then in A vs A I got one success, which Tharin's leather armour absorbed, while Tharin did damage (at least one point, which was enough) and so drove off the moles with no need to compromise. Tharin noted a successful Fighter check, and Gondolf a failed Will. I made a roll on Loot Table 1, for "loot drop", and got a 12 - Magic. The further rolls on the appropriate tables turned up a magic woollen sweater - I described the body's sweater as being surprisingly clean, and that as the dust settled (the two turns of +1 Ob penalty being done) it didn't seem to land on the sweater. Gondolf took the magic sweater of not getting dusty - currently he's carrying it.
I was still struggling with the room description, but found the bit about the glyph circle and described that, and so Gondolf went to read it. Being exhaused, he couldn't use his Instinct for free but he went for it anyway. And failed a second Lore Master test. I went for a twist - as Tharin's third (of four) torches burned out, the moles came back out of their nest!
We had to break there, but had time to double-check all the tests had been logged for advancement, and awarded fate and persona. We agreed that each PC had acted on their Belief (Tharin poked the corpse; Gondolf took the time to inspect the glyph circle despite being tired), and each had pursued their Goal (Gondolf had entered the tower and tried to work out what was going on in it; Tharin had protected Gondolf from the mutant moles). Neither had benefitted the party from their Instinct. As far as persona is concerned, we agreed that Tharin was both MVP and Teamworker, and so he got one persona (one PC can't get both awards).
****************************************************************************
There were three main things I took away from this experience.
(1) PC building, which looked fairly straightforward on a read-through, took a lot longer than I expected. Some of that was inexperience and unfamiliarity with FRPG conventions, but not all of it. In retrospect, it reminds me a bit of building PCs for The Dying Earth. And contrasts with Prince Valiant, which also uses two stats (Brawn, Presence) plus skills but has many fewer decision points and lacks the intricacy of traits, wises, beliefs etc and has default starting packages of gear.
(2) Beware confusing rooms in dungeon adventures. When I eventually figured this one out the first time I read it, I should have written a note and stuck it into the book.
(3) Keeping track of the passage of turns - which is absolutely central to the game for the Grind of conditions and the running down of light - is something I have to try hard to do accurately. The last few times I've GMed AD&D and Moldvay Basic - where it matters for wandering monsters and light - I sucked at it, and I started to slip a bit this afternoon at more than one point. The plus side is that remembering tests that have been made is easier than tracking turns by movement rate and maps.
I deliberately chose the Tower of Stars over the Dread Crypt of Skogenby - which is the intro adventure in the core rulebooks - because it looked easier. I think I made the right call, even if Gondolf kept failing Ob 4 Lore Master tests. I think there may well be some fleeing in Gondolf and Tharin's future (should we play this again); but I think they are more likely to survive the mutant moles than they would the skeletal Tomb Guardians in the Dread Crypt. The main issue they will face is darkness - Wyrd Lights takes a turn to cast, and so can't be cast while mutant moles are swarming around.
Any thoughts from others with Torchbearer experience would be welcome!
The recommended group size is four to five (3-4 players plus a GM). I roped one of my daughters into my plan, but the other wasn't interested. I outlined the basic stock-and-class options, and she was a bit unsure, and I suggested that a warrior-type and a wizard-type is generally a good party default. So she built two PCs: the Dwarven Outcast Tharin and the human Magician Gondolf. (In the other thread @AbdulAlhzared noted the Outcast-Thorin Oakenshield affinity.)
PC building took about an hour, which was longer than I had anticipated. I think it would be quicker with players who are more familiar with basic FRPG conventions and more likely to have quick responses to questions about the sort of PC they want to play. At various points I made suggestions to help move things along - which is why Tharin's home is the Dwarven Halls and Gondolf's a Wizard's Tower. She chose her own weapons and armour - a staff for Gondolf because they're cool, and a spear and helmet for Tharin (I didn't both taking her through the weapon list or modifiers but just told her to choose a mediaeval weapon she though would suit Tharin, as they all balance out in a rock-paper-scissors sort of way).
Answering the Nature and background questions had Tharin with Nature 5 and an orphan wearing a silver chain memento about his neck. He has a friend, a mentor and an enemy but we postponed detailing these personae for another time.
Gondolf, on the other hand, had Nature 3 but with Wizard's Sight at level 2 and Dwarf-wise. Gondolf has parents, and many friends but no enemies - his specialty is Cook and he makes friends that way! - and as a mentor the famed wizard Maila who appears in the background of a couple of adventures in the Cartographer's Compendium, and who was my suggestion as a mentor to help ease the way into the adventure I wanted to run. The roll for spells revealed that Maila (and hence Gondolf) is an illusionist. He memorised Wyrd Lights (the system's version of Dancing Lights) - this was my suggestion as to the most generically useful of the three spells Wyrd Lights, Arcane Semblance (Disguise Self) and Celestial Music (sort-of like Hypnotic Pattern).
I suggested that she choose a Wise for each character that complements the other, so Gondolf chose Darkness-wise and Tharin Ancient Secrets-wise.
When it came to equipping the PCs, I explained the slot system, and then she chose a backpack for Gondolf and a satchel for Tharin. I then suggested gear which she dutifully wrote down. (I overlooked a grappling hook, which was a mistake that may end up being costly. Apologies to my daughter! Normally I would expect players to equip their own PCs, but this was a place where it could have really bogged down when someone doesn't know either the detailed rules or even the D&D-ish conventions.)
She then chose Beliefs and Instincts, again with a bit of help. Tharin's Belief is, If in doubt, poke it (by default with his spear) and his Instinct is to always repair ny helmet in camp. Gondolf's Belief is something like One should never act in haste and his instinct is to Read everything I see. I read the brief background to the Tower of Stars adventure (the first in the Compendium) selecting the option of having been sent by Maila to find out what has happened to Beholder of Fates. This dictated a goal for Gondolf, chosen from the list in the book - I will discover what befell the Beholder of Fates - and then I read the other three options and she chose the one for Tharin that made him seem the least like a bady guy - I will protect my friends from the insidious traps that lie within, as opposed to ones about looting and raiding.
We then started. Our play lasted a bit over another hour. In that time we got through 7 turns, or about one every 10 minutes. At the end of the session 9 advancement "ticks" had been made - one for each check that marked out the turns, plus one for an Instinct (Gondolf tried but failed to read an arcane sigil) and one each during a conflict. Those 7 turns involved an initial entry into the tower up the scree slope (successful Dungeoneer), then looking around the ground level including nearly falling down a crevice while trying to read the sigil (failed Lore Master, with a twist taken from the module list of suggested twists, then a successful Health check), then climbing up to the next level (successful Dungeoneer to use rope and spikes to climb up to the crack in the ceiling, then failed Dungeoneer to squeeze through - with the Exhausted condition as a consequence). This marked 4 turns (3 Dungeoneering, 1 Health) and so the PCs were hungry and thirsty. They drank their water in the next level of the tower.
This level - room 3 in the module - is confusingly described. When I first read it a week or two ago I struggled to work it all out, but had forgotten the issues until today when I encountered them again! But I did manage to describe the corpse, and so Tharin poked it. In the adventure it suggested Healing to examine the corpse, but poking it seemed more like Scouting to me. I set the obstacle at 3 or 4 (memory fails me), with a +1 Ob because (as per the room description) the PCs had stirred up the dust in the room. With Scout 2 Tharin couldn't succeed, so I suggested this was a good time to be disadvantaged by a Trait (being Born of Earth and Stone, Tharin is not very enthusiastic about human corpses). This was the only check earned in the session.
I looked up the list of suggested twists again and saw the ley line-mutated moles (statted up as Troll Rats) and thought that looked good, so described 3 of them coming out from where they were nesting under and/or in the dead body. I then outlined the conflict rules, and explained the difference between killing and driving off. My daughter decided that Tharin wanted to drive the moles off (assisted by Gondolf).
The disposition rolls went better for Tharin than my moles, so it was 8 (4 hp each) vs my 5 hp spread over 3 mutant moles. I looked at my moles' instinct - Always steal shiny objects for the next - and thought that Tharin's chain was probably glinting in the torchlight. So I scripted M/D/A, the logic being to manoeuvre for position (ie climb up the dwarf to his neck), then dodge him, then grab the chain and run off (and I would angle for this is any compromise).
Then my daughter scripted A/D/A.
Her first roll was 3 successes over mine, plus 2 for the Might difference, but then I remembered the +1 Ob penalty for the dust and so the net margin was only 4, which knocked away two of the moles but left a last one. D vs D is an Ob 3 test for both, which both Gondolf and the mole failed. Then in A vs A I got one success, which Tharin's leather armour absorbed, while Tharin did damage (at least one point, which was enough) and so drove off the moles with no need to compromise. Tharin noted a successful Fighter check, and Gondolf a failed Will. I made a roll on Loot Table 1, for "loot drop", and got a 12 - Magic. The further rolls on the appropriate tables turned up a magic woollen sweater - I described the body's sweater as being surprisingly clean, and that as the dust settled (the two turns of +1 Ob penalty being done) it didn't seem to land on the sweater. Gondolf took the magic sweater of not getting dusty - currently he's carrying it.
I was still struggling with the room description, but found the bit about the glyph circle and described that, and so Gondolf went to read it. Being exhaused, he couldn't use his Instinct for free but he went for it anyway. And failed a second Lore Master test. I went for a twist - as Tharin's third (of four) torches burned out, the moles came back out of their nest!
We had to break there, but had time to double-check all the tests had been logged for advancement, and awarded fate and persona. We agreed that each PC had acted on their Belief (Tharin poked the corpse; Gondolf took the time to inspect the glyph circle despite being tired), and each had pursued their Goal (Gondolf had entered the tower and tried to work out what was going on in it; Tharin had protected Gondolf from the mutant moles). Neither had benefitted the party from their Instinct. As far as persona is concerned, we agreed that Tharin was both MVP and Teamworker, and so he got one persona (one PC can't get both awards).
****************************************************************************
There were three main things I took away from this experience.
(1) PC building, which looked fairly straightforward on a read-through, took a lot longer than I expected. Some of that was inexperience and unfamiliarity with FRPG conventions, but not all of it. In retrospect, it reminds me a bit of building PCs for The Dying Earth. And contrasts with Prince Valiant, which also uses two stats (Brawn, Presence) plus skills but has many fewer decision points and lacks the intricacy of traits, wises, beliefs etc and has default starting packages of gear.
(2) Beware confusing rooms in dungeon adventures. When I eventually figured this one out the first time I read it, I should have written a note and stuck it into the book.
(3) Keeping track of the passage of turns - which is absolutely central to the game for the Grind of conditions and the running down of light - is something I have to try hard to do accurately. The last few times I've GMed AD&D and Moldvay Basic - where it matters for wandering monsters and light - I sucked at it, and I started to slip a bit this afternoon at more than one point. The plus side is that remembering tests that have been made is easier than tracking turns by movement rate and maps.
I deliberately chose the Tower of Stars over the Dread Crypt of Skogenby - which is the intro adventure in the core rulebooks - because it looked easier. I think I made the right call, even if Gondolf kept failing Ob 4 Lore Master tests. I think there may well be some fleeing in Gondolf and Tharin's future (should we play this again); but I think they are more likely to survive the mutant moles than they would the skeletal Tomb Guardians in the Dread Crypt. The main issue they will face is darkness - Wyrd Lights takes a turn to cast, and so can't be cast while mutant moles are swarming around.
Any thoughts from others with Torchbearer experience would be welcome!
