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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Flamestrike" data-source="post: 6937687" data-attributes="member: 6788736">That says exactly what I said it does, and it doesnt say what you say it does.1) Creatures are assumed to be alert to danger and to know the location of other creatures in combat.2) In combat, in order to conceal your location from an enemy, you must take the Hide action.3) Invisible creatures are not automatically hidden. The also need to take the Hide action, however they can do so at any time (this is the advantage of invisibility; you're always heavily obscured and can attempt to hide whenever you want without having to find total cover or heavy obscurement). It remains an action to take the Hide action (or a bonus action for a Rogue 2).4) Hidden is defined in the combat section of the PHB as 'unseen AND unheard' (page 195). Page 177 of the PHB (hiding sidebar) specifically notes that if you are hidden and make noise you are no longer hidden. In order to be hidden you must be unseen and unheard. 5) To become hidden in combat (move silently/ hide in shadows) you must take the Hide action. This takes an action (representing the effort of moving slowly, muffling sound from your person, sticking to the shadows, avoiding leaving tracks, staying in a creatures blind spot and sticking behind cover) unless you are a Rogue 2 or a Ranger with the vanish ability (when it becomes a bonus action).Example 1:On his turn, a wizard casts greater invisibility on his Rogue 2 buddy (Stealth +11). The next turn an enemy Orc acts. He can walk up to the invisible Rogue and attack (at disadvantage). The Rogue is not 'automatically hidden' despite being invisible.Following the Orcs turn comes the Rogue. On his turn, he can now attack the Orc (at advantage thanks to invisiblity) and (as a bonus action) take the Hide action (thanks to cunning action). He rolls and adds his stealth bonus (lets assume a roll of 10, plus 11 for his Stealth bonus for a result of 21). This is compared to the passive perception of the Orc, and easily beats it. The Rogue is now 'hidden' in addition to being invisible. The Orc cannot attack the Rogue barring a lucky guess (he now has no idea where the Rogue is). The Orc can try and find the Rogue with the Search action, needing a 21 on his Perception check to pinpoint him.Nowhere in the PHB does it say you can use the Hide action or the Search action as free actions. It has very clear rules for Hiding in combat (it takes an action to make yourself unseen and unheard) and for searching for hidden things (you use your action to search for them with a perception check).Example 2:The Wizard casts greater invisibility on Fred the Fighter (Stealth +0, disadvantage for Full plate).Fred goes next. Fred wants to sneak up and attack an Ogre. Despite being invisible he is not currently hidden (he has yet to take the Hide action). Fred has a think about it and decides to move up to the Ogre and attack it (at advantage thanks to invisibility) as his action. His turn ends, and he is still not hidden (and even if he was, he just gave his position away because he attacked).Freds turn is about to end, but he has a moment of inspiration. He decides to use Action surge for an extra action, and then uses that Action to take the Hide action (at +0 with disadvantage from his armor). If he succeeds the Ogre wont know where Fred is anymore and (barring  lucky guess) the Ogre wont be able to attack Fred on the Ogres turn.See how it works yet?</blockquote>

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