Touch Attack and Flat-Footed ACs

[Caliban]

Haste gives a haste bonus, not a dodge bonus.

Yeah, but it's lost whenever you would lose a dodge bonus, so for most purposes it amounts to the same thing.

The only difference is that dodge bonuses will stack with each other, but two different haste bonuses to your AC wouldn't.

 

[StealthyMark]

Yeah, but it's lost (the Haste bonus) whenever you would lose a dodge bonus...

Are you sure about that? IIRC, a haste bonus is never lost.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Your thinking of Incorporeal touch attacks, which don't bypass armor bonuses from force effects.

Really?

I wasn't aware of that. Would you give me a page #?

(I'm not arguing with you; I learned that lesson a while back. )

 

[Caliban]

Are you sure about that? IIRC, a haste bonus is never lost.

PHB, page 212, Haste, last two sentences:

He gains a +4 Haste bonus to AC. He loses this bonus whenever he would lose a dodge bonus.

 

[Caliban]

Really?

I wasn't aware of that. Would you give me a page #?

(I'm not arguing with you; I learned that lesson a while back. )

DMG, page 77-78, Incorporeal, sixth bullet point:

The physical attacks of incorporeal creature ignor material armor, even magic armor, unless it is made of force (such as mage armor or bracers of armor) or has the ghost touch ability.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Why does this apply to touch attacks?

 

[SableWyvern]

Fortunately I'm slightly more intelligent than a carrot, so I realised the flat-footed does not equal stuck to the ground.

I am also capable of spelling the country I come from, so that people don't think I'm from Europe.

On topic, the voice of reason has prevailed - insight bonuses remain for both flat-footed and touch, and everything else I mentioned is actually already covered by the rules (just not in the one spot).

Thanks all.

 

[Caliban]

Why does this apply to touch attacks?

The defining trait of a touch attack is that it bypasses armor and natural armor bonuses from any source.

The defining trait of an incorporeal physical attack is that it bypasses armor from any source, except force based armor.

Therefor an Incorporeal physical attack is just a subtype of touch attack that doesn't bypass mage armor or bracers of armor (and can't go through walls of force, shield spell, etc).

 

[kreynolds]

LOL! I swear to God, sometimes I think you people already know the rules and this is just a massive conspiracy to make me insane and to generate traffic on this site.