Traps and Search-Need Help Quick!

[c0mA]

Hey folks,
I am in a pickle and I leave for my game in 1hr! I'm a little lost when it comes to whether or not you can take 10/take 20 on a Search check when it involves a trap. How would this be adjudicated and where in the core rules is it handled?

 

[Babylon Knight]

regular/mundange traps have a DC Search check of 20, i think

Difficult mechanical traps with a DC of 21 or higher are ones that only Rogues or Dwarves can check

Magic traps have a DC of 25+ the spell level, which are Rogue only

Rogues are the only ones who can search for a trap over DC 20, Find Traps however, lets a Cleric use it as if he were a rogue.

As far as I know, under the Search skill, you can't take a 10 or 20 normally.

 

[IcyCool]

Hey folks,
I am in a pickle and I leave for my game in 1hr! I'm a little lost when it comes to whether or not you can take 10/take 20 on a Search check when it involves a trap. How would this be adjudicated and where in the core rules is it handled?

Well, you can't take a 20 (as that represents doing it 20 times, getting a 1, 2, 3, etc.).

Not sure about taking 10 though.

 

[TheEvil]

Actually, as there is no negitive side effect to failing a search check, you can take 20 on search checks to find traps. The example given for taking 20 is even a search check. Nothing under the rogue trapfinding ability, nor the search skill itself says anything otherwise. Any time you can take your time with a skill, you can take 10. I think only knowledge skills prevent this.

 

[IcyCool]

Actually, as there is no negitive side effect to failing a search check, you can take 20 on search checks to find traps. The example given for taking 20 is even a search check. Nothing under the rogue trapfinding ability, nor the search skill itself says anything otherwise. Any time you can take your time with a skill, you can take 10. I think only knowledge skills prevent this.

Blarg, you are correct. I was thinking of Disable Device for some reason...

And for reference:

Taking 10: When your character is not being threatened or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure —you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn’t help.
Taking 20:When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, eventually you will get a 20 on 1d20 if you roll enough times. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20.
Taking 20 means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that you fail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes twenty times as long as making a single check would take.
Since taking 20 assumes that the character will fail many times before succeeding, if you did attempt to take 20 on a skill that carries penalties for failure, your character would automatically incur those penalties before he or she could complete the task. Common “take 20” skills include Escape Artist, Open Lock, and Search.

 

[c0mA]

Here's the hard part...

"Taking 20 means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that you fail many times before succeeding." (PHB)

I'm assuming that if there is a chance for failure (the trap going off) you can't take 20 here, UNLESS failing on a Search check doesn't set the trap off (the trigger isn't effected by a Search check.) But normally, as we have seen, only a failure of Disable Device results in the trap going off.

So does it depend on the trigger of the trap (making it a case-by-case ruling on whether or not you can take 20), or is the only chance of failure for the Search check just not finding the trap (which means taking 20 is perfectly fine because that isn't a real failure?)

 

[IcyCool]

So does it depend on the trigger of the trap (making it a case-by-case ruling on whether or not you can take 20), or is the only chance of failure for the Search check just not finding the trap (which means taking 20 is perfectly fine because that isn't a real failure?)

If the trigger of the trap is set off by an unsuccessful search check, then no, the rogue cannot take a 20. I'm pretty certain that failing your search check to find a trap doesn't set a trap off, though (or at least it isn't the norm).

It would be kind of odd for your player if he gets used to taking a 20 to search for traps, and then on this one particular door, you tell him "uhmm, you can't take a 20 here".

 

[MichaelH]

Hey folks,
I am in a pickle and I leave for my game in 1hr! I'm a little lost when it comes to whether or not you can take 10/take 20 on a Search check when it involves a trap. How would this be adjudicated and where in the core rules is it handled?

I'm a little late, but it is the first NFL Sunday of this season.

Of course you can take 20 to Search for a trap, if you have the time. It's the Disable Device check you cannot take 20 with.

 

[shilsen]

Just to reiterate what a couple of people have said, you can both Take 10 (which takes a full round action per 5 ft x 5 ft area) and Take 20 (which takes 20 times as long, i.e. 2 minutes per 5 ft x 5 ft area) when searching for traps. Failing a search check does not trigger traps. It can if the DM chooses so, but that is not the default in the core rules.

You can Take 10 but not Take 20 when trying to Disable Device a trap, since a failure by 5 pts or more will trigger a trap.

Of course, as with all skills, you cannot Take 10 when your character is being threatened or distracted. And any DM who says you're distracted/threatened by the thought of the trap going off needs to be smacked

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

The down side of taking 20 for search is that it is for a 5'x5' area.....

so looking for traps near a 10' wide door... should be able to roll for wandering monsters at least once during a good long search