Traps: making them and setting them

[Ranes]

I’m tired. Have I missed something? [...] How useful is Disable Device as a guide to the required time and DC of the task of setting a trap?

I really was tired.

 

[Evilhalfling]

So according to RAW rangers can craft enormously expensive deathtraps, but then not actually set them in the field???
yeah sure.

 

[Ranes]

Well, I wasn't entirely straight-faced when I made that remark. The reset trap example in Disable Device is just that, an example of how that skill can be used. A ranger can construct - and therefore set - traps without needing to cross-class, by making untrained (if necessary) Craft (trapmaking) checks. But doing so will take him longer than if he had Disable Device and a ready made trap mechanism to deploy.

At least when he reaches 6th level the ranger becomes elligible for the Craft Wondrous Item feat and capable of making magic traps, something a rogue won't be able to do.

 

[Snowy]

and they can spend a couple of skill points to get a rank in disable device, showing that they've had some training in setting snares and other woodsy type traps.

On the other hand if you want an expert trap setter then they've multiclassed into rogue maybe?

I mean just because its cross class doesnt mean that its impossible. This is an area where I think lots of situational modifiers could be applied, for example, knowledge nature - bonuses on setting/making traps on game trails or for certain animals, knowledge dungeoneering bonuses in dungeons, maybe hide? to give a bonus to the search DC (similar to the hide another description).


In fact I think that my rogues going to sink some points into craft trapmaking, poisoned spike traps round our camp might slow down unwelcome visitors!

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

reset a trap... reset a trap...

reset = set

2d4 rounds

I disagree with that particular ruling.

To my mind, this is the rogue finding a tripwire that triggers a scything blade and carefully taking the whole trap out of commission by sticking the tripwire (so the tension doesn't change) and unhooking the tripwire's other end. Now everyone can pass by who needs to. Afterwards, he can "reset" the trap by undoing his other work - rehooking the tripwire, easing off the substance holding the tripwire in place. Now, the trap can be sprung.

This is different from setting up the scything blade and tripwire to begin with, which should be both more difficult and take longer.

 

[Ranes]

I hear you talking (must be the medication) but what if a character accidentally sets off your scything blade trap? He's not bypassed it, as the rogue in your example did, he's just been given a close shave, at the very least. Now the scything blade has to be sited back in position and the tripwire reset. According the rules, the whole task of resetting the sprung trap takes 2d4 rounds.

I question your assumption that setting the trap should take longer than the rogue's bypass. The rogue in your example is attempting to manipulate the trap in a manner for which it was not designed. Shouldn't this be the more time-consuming and difficult of the two activities?

Anyway, Patryn, I appreciate your continued contributions to this thread. The whole reason behind my interest in this is the thought of writing a scenario in which NPCs are actively setting traps in an area being explored by PCs at the same time.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I hear you talking (must be the medication) but what if a character accidentally sets off your scything blade trap? He's not bypassed it, as the rogue in your example did, he's just been given a close shave, at the very least. Now the scything blade has to be sited back in position and the tripwire reset. According the rules, the whole task of resetting the sprung trap takes 2d4 rounds.

I question your assumption that setting the trap should take longer than the rogue's bypass.

It takes 2d4 rounds to take a blade that's already in location (say, normally up in the doorjam, though now it's at ground-level), push it back up into place, wind the spring that causes it to spring down quickly, reattach the tripwire to the spring, and hook the tripwire in place.

It should take longer to hollow out the space above the door for the blade, build the spring into the wall, run the tripwire in an unobtrusive place, and find (or make) the hook on the other side of the doorway to attach it to.

This is, of course, a complex trap, and therefore wouldn't be subject to the proposed houserules above. It would need to be constructed using the Craft (Trapmaking) skills from beginning to end.

In other words, the time for the rogue to undo his "bypass-work" and the time to completely reset the trap are identical, because they are similar in scope.

This, however, does not apply to setting up a trap from scratch.

Feel free to modify the time in my houserule, however. I picked 1 minute as an initial guess that seemed fair.

Anyway, Patryn, I appreciate your continued contributions to this thread. The whole reason behind my interest in this is the thought of writing a scenario in which NPCs are actively setting traps in an area being explored by PCs at the same time.

Sounds like fun! I'm glad someone likes listening to me ramble on.

 

[Ranes]

I think we basically agree. You've just described building the trap and that would indeed require Craft (trapmaking). The rules for this lengthy construction process do not explicitly account for setting the trap as part of the process but I think it's reasonable to assume. My take on it is that it's only at the end of the construction process that a newly constructed trap is actually armed and it was the length of this time period that I wanted a clear rule for. The Disable Device use table gave me that period.

On reflection, I agree that the bypass and the reset tasks we've discussed are similar in scope.

The house rules you came up with earlier, with regard to the synergies and circumstance bonuses, are excellent and you should be in no doubt that I've happily yoinked them. It was an untrained Yoink (houserule).