Traps - Reflex Save or Attack Roll?

mmu1

First Post
Our group is currently playing through the "City of Cauldron" series of adventures from Dungeon, and one aspect of the design is really starting to get on my nerves...

It seems like a huge majority of the traps we encountered so far use attack rolls instead of reflex saves to see it they hit or not, usually on top something like a Search DC in the 27 range. (or higher)

What this results in is that our 5th level rogue with a perfectly respectable Search of +9 a) Fails to find any of them, unless he decides to take 20 in a specific area and b) Is then usually hit by the trap.

And I'm not talking about spear-shooters, swinging blades, etc. here - we ran into a trap that was a freakin' collapsing wall that had an attack roll of around +10 or +12 and ended up doing 20 points of damage.

Doesn't that seem a rather idiotic thing to do, and a complete nerf of the Rogue's abilities? What's the point of having a good Reflex save, Evasion and bonuses to saves vs. traps when 75% of them don't allow Reflex saves, and are just based on AC?
 

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At least in the SRD, there appear to be three basic kinds of traps: the kind that shoot stuff at you, and get an attack roll (arrow trap, spear trap); the kind that you fall into, that allow a Reflex save (pit traps); and the kind that don't allow either (crushing wall, poison gas, flooding room).

If you feel like comparing the SRD sample traps to the ones in the City of Cauldron adventure, here is the URL:

http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd/SRDHazardsandObstacles.rtf

Scroll down past the walls and doors until you get to the traps.
 

Joshua Randall said:

If you feel like comparing the SRD sample traps to the ones in the City of Cauldron adventure, here is the URL:

http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd/SRDHazardsandObstacles.rtf

Scroll down past the walls and doors until you get to the traps.

Hmm... The SRD doesn't really seem to be much better, really - quite a few attack-roll traps (for a falling stone???), but at least the DCs are a hell of a lot more reasonable.
 

Uhm, didn't you get the bonus to Refl saves as AC bonus against traps with attack roll?

Or was this one of the 1001 houserules every DM must have?
 

Darklone said:
Uhm, didn't you get the bonus to Refl saves as AC bonus against traps with attack roll?

Or was this one of the 1001 houserules every DM must have?

a) I'm not the Rogue, I'm the Cleric that gets to waste half his spells keeping the Rogue alive long enough to actually see a combat. :)

b) No, he didn't.
 

mmu1 said:
What's the point of having a good Reflex save, Evasion and bonuses to saves vs. traps when 75% of them don't allow Reflex saves, and are just based on AC?

So, in summary:

(A) You seem to be working from a skewed sample. By no means does this 75% figure hold across the adventures I've seen.

(B) Having an attack roll for something that is not purposefully set up to swing or shoot at an intruder is in fact inconsistent with the sample traps in the SRD.

(C) Rogues do indeed get a bonus to AC for this sort of thing anyway.

Looks like maybe a problem with a particular adventure, but not really with the system.
 

Re: Re: Traps - Reflex Save or Attack Roll?

Dr_Rictus said:


So, in summary:

(A) You seem to be working from a skewed sample. By no means does this 75% figure hold across the adventures I've seen.

(B) Having an attack roll for something that is not purposefully set up to swing or shoot at an intruder is in fact inconsistent with the sample traps in the SRD.

(C) Rogues do indeed get a bonus to AC for this sort of thing anyway.

Looks like maybe a problem with a particular adventure, but not really with the system.

Whether I'm "working from a skewed sample" is what I was trying to determine... It seemed wrong, but I haven't played (or run) very many trap-heavy games, so I dont' have much of a reference.

As far as the AC bonus goes, he's 6th level now... Not high enought to get any "against traps" bonuses, I think.
 

Rogues should plan on taking 20 whenever possible on search checks for traps.

Until you get access to magic that boosts your search checks (Lens of Detection), you won't be able to find half of the traps "appropriate" to your CR. Especially magical traps, but at least you usually get a Reflex save against those.
 

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