Quasqueton
First Post
It started with a curious notion, and it built up from going through one adventure module noting certain things mentally. Then it became actually taking notes on a piece of paper, and comparing between them.
Following this opening post, will be lists of the treasure (gp value, xp value, and magic items) in the iconic adventure series of AD&D1, B/ED&D, and D&D3.
NOTE: This thread will contain spoilers for:
AD&D1's Temple of Elemental Evil, Against the Giants, Descent to the Depths of the Earth, Vault of the Drow, and Queen of the Demonweb Pit.
D&D3's Sunless Citadel, Forge of Fury, Speaker In Dreams, Standing Stones, Heart of Nightfang Spire, Lord of the Iron Fortress, and Bastion of Broken Souls.
B/ED&D's The Keep on the Borderlands, The Isle of Dread, and others.
I will probably be adding data from other classic adventures as well.
-------------------------------
The layout of the data:
Party begins at: This is the level (and xp) that the party of adventurers begin the adventure module. For the "adventure path" modules, the levels (and xp) will carry over from one adventure in the series to the next.
Total gp value: This is the total value of items that had a value listed for them in the adventure module (usually coins*, gems, and jewelry). It does not include the value of mundane armor, weapons, and equipment taken from fallen foes.
Total xp value: This is the total value of enemies and/or challenges that had a xp value or CR. For AD&D1 and B/ED&D, it includes the standard 1gp = 1xp. But this will not include xp for using or selling the magic items (an AD&D1 rule only). It also does not include the 5-10% bonus xp for having a prime requisite ability score above 12-15. Although this means the AD&D1 and B/ED&D xp values will not be as high as they could be in actual play, these extra xp are too variable to include in this data list.
Total magic treasure: This includes magic items listed as treasure in the module. It does not include non-treasure magic items, like what the captain of the guard in the town might have, or things that might have a magical effect but what can't be taken by the PCs.
Party finishes at: This is the level (and xp) that the partyof adventurers come out of the adventure module.
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AD&D1 and B/ED&D rules and adventures expected a larger party of adventurers than D&D3 assumes. (Some AD&D1 and B/ED&D adventures expected/suggested as many as 10 PCs.) For these adventures I'm using 6 PCs in my calculations because:
1- In my experience, with several groups through the years, I've never seen more than 6 PCs regularly in a game
2- WotC did research in the late 90s to find out what the normal average was for most game groups, and their data showed 4 PCs were the average (3-5).**
For AD&D1 parties***: a fighter, paladin, cleric, magic-user, illusionist, and thief.
For B/ED&D parties***: a fighter, cleric, magic-user, thief, elf, and dwarf.****
To compare the leveling rates between the older editions and the current edition, I'll use these D&D3 PCs:
D&D3 to AD&D1 comparison party: a fighter, paladin, cleric, wizard, illusionist, and rogue.
D&D3 to B/ED&D comparison party: a fighter, cleric, wizard, rogue, fighter/wizard, and fighter
D&D3 rules and adventures expect only 4 PCs. So for D&D3 adventure modules, I'll use: a fighter, cleric, wizard, and rogue.
* AD&D1 coinage was 1 gp = 20 sp = 200 cp = 1/5 pp.
B/ED&D coinage was 1 gp = 10 sp = 100 cp = 1/5 pp.
D&D3 coinage is 1 gp = 10 sp = 100 cp = 1/10 pp.
**It seems that Gygax and TSR based their "large party" assumption on their personal experiences (like EGG sometimes having upwards of 20 Players at his table at one time) and tournament gatherings (having 6-9 Players in a game) rather than on market sample information of actual home games (which reports say they had none).
*** The various classes in AD&D1 and B/ED&D used different xp charts, so I chose 6 different classes to show how they level up at the different rates.
**** In B/ED&D, the elf, dwarf, and halfling were classes as well as races. Elves were essentially fighter/magic-users; dwarves and halflings were essentially just fighters. Since halflings had a level cap at 8th, I chose to drop them from the list of characters here. (Elves capped at 10th, and dwarves capped at 12th.)
-------------------------------
I hope you find this data as interesting as I have found it. I'll start with the beginning adventures of the respective iconic "adventure path" series.
Quasqueton
Following this opening post, will be lists of the treasure (gp value, xp value, and magic items) in the iconic adventure series of AD&D1, B/ED&D, and D&D3.
NOTE: This thread will contain spoilers for:
AD&D1's Temple of Elemental Evil, Against the Giants, Descent to the Depths of the Earth, Vault of the Drow, and Queen of the Demonweb Pit.
D&D3's Sunless Citadel, Forge of Fury, Speaker In Dreams, Standing Stones, Heart of Nightfang Spire, Lord of the Iron Fortress, and Bastion of Broken Souls.
B/ED&D's The Keep on the Borderlands, The Isle of Dread, and others.
I will probably be adding data from other classic adventures as well.
-------------------------------
The layout of the data:
Party begins at: This is the level (and xp) that the party of adventurers begin the adventure module. For the "adventure path" modules, the levels (and xp) will carry over from one adventure in the series to the next.
Total gp value: This is the total value of items that had a value listed for them in the adventure module (usually coins*, gems, and jewelry). It does not include the value of mundane armor, weapons, and equipment taken from fallen foes.
Total xp value: This is the total value of enemies and/or challenges that had a xp value or CR. For AD&D1 and B/ED&D, it includes the standard 1gp = 1xp. But this will not include xp for using or selling the magic items (an AD&D1 rule only). It also does not include the 5-10% bonus xp for having a prime requisite ability score above 12-15. Although this means the AD&D1 and B/ED&D xp values will not be as high as they could be in actual play, these extra xp are too variable to include in this data list.
Total magic treasure: This includes magic items listed as treasure in the module. It does not include non-treasure magic items, like what the captain of the guard in the town might have, or things that might have a magical effect but what can't be taken by the PCs.
Party finishes at: This is the level (and xp) that the partyof adventurers come out of the adventure module.
-------------------------------
AD&D1 and B/ED&D rules and adventures expected a larger party of adventurers than D&D3 assumes. (Some AD&D1 and B/ED&D adventures expected/suggested as many as 10 PCs.) For these adventures I'm using 6 PCs in my calculations because:
1- In my experience, with several groups through the years, I've never seen more than 6 PCs regularly in a game
2- WotC did research in the late 90s to find out what the normal average was for most game groups, and their data showed 4 PCs were the average (3-5).**
For AD&D1 parties***: a fighter, paladin, cleric, magic-user, illusionist, and thief.
For B/ED&D parties***: a fighter, cleric, magic-user, thief, elf, and dwarf.****
To compare the leveling rates between the older editions and the current edition, I'll use these D&D3 PCs:
D&D3 to AD&D1 comparison party: a fighter, paladin, cleric, wizard, illusionist, and rogue.
D&D3 to B/ED&D comparison party: a fighter, cleric, wizard, rogue, fighter/wizard, and fighter
D&D3 rules and adventures expect only 4 PCs. So for D&D3 adventure modules, I'll use: a fighter, cleric, wizard, and rogue.
* AD&D1 coinage was 1 gp = 20 sp = 200 cp = 1/5 pp.
B/ED&D coinage was 1 gp = 10 sp = 100 cp = 1/5 pp.
D&D3 coinage is 1 gp = 10 sp = 100 cp = 1/10 pp.
**It seems that Gygax and TSR based their "large party" assumption on their personal experiences (like EGG sometimes having upwards of 20 Players at his table at one time) and tournament gatherings (having 6-9 Players in a game) rather than on market sample information of actual home games (which reports say they had none).
*** The various classes in AD&D1 and B/ED&D used different xp charts, so I chose 6 different classes to show how they level up at the different rates.
**** In B/ED&D, the elf, dwarf, and halfling were classes as well as races. Elves were essentially fighter/magic-users; dwarves and halflings were essentially just fighters. Since halflings had a level cap at 8th, I chose to drop them from the list of characters here. (Elves capped at 10th, and dwarves capped at 12th.)
-------------------------------
I hope you find this data as interesting as I have found it. I'll start with the beginning adventures of the respective iconic "adventure path" series.
Quasqueton
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