Treat Disease

[takasi]

I'm playing a cleric in a campaign and the halfling bard was just bitten by a wererat.

My cleric does not have knowledge (local), which I'm assuming would pertain to wererats because they are humanoids with the shapechanger subtype. How can the find out what disease there is, if any, related to lycanthropy? Which skill is appropriate? Knowledge (arcana)? Heal? Why?

The DM ruled that the wizard, who has knowledge (arcana), knows about the disease. The wizard (a demon conjurer btw) is hiding this information from my lawful good cleric (who would object to the general practices of the wizard but he's a cowardly, coistered cleric).

The DM is ruling that the halfling bard cannot benefit from my treat disease heal check in place of his save because I'm not aware of the fact that the creature spreads disease.

What is your opinion of this ruling? If someone is bit by something, especially if it's rat-like, isn't it common sense that you would treat the patient as if it were diseased?

 

[Imagicka]

Greetings...

Hey, if your DM doesn't want you to know. Then you don't know.

Personally, if it was my game... Knowledge (Arcana) with maybe a synergy bonus from Heal would be what I would be using. But the only thing that your character would be aware of is the fact that this halfling was bitten by a wolf.

If the wound doesn't heal properly, or something else is different about the way that the character heals or acts, then you character might be suspecious.

Since you didn't 'roleplay' the situation that... "Well, being a cleric, living a dangerous world such as it is... we are always weary of the fact that if someone is bitten by a dog or a wolf... it might have rabes, or worse... lycranthropy." -- You can always ask OOC what your character knows about lycanthropy, but your DM might call that metagaming.

But I definately think that your character should at least get a 'Bluff'-vs-'Sense Motive' against the wizard to see if he's successful in hiding the fact he's not telling you about this 'disease'. IF, and only-IF you asked him about it.

 

[Infiniti2000]

My cleric does not have knowledge (local), which I'm assuming would pertain to wererats because they are humanoids with the shapechanger subtype.

Wererats could also be giants with the shapechanger subtype. There's no knowledge skill listed for just the shapechanger subtype, though.

How can the find out what disease there is, if any, related to lycanthropy? Which skill is appropriate? Knowledge (arcana)? Heal? Why?

I'd go with knowledge (local) for general knowledge on lycanthropes because it's appropriate for "legends." However, it definitely is a heal check to figure out how to cure it because that's what's involved. I see no way for it to be knowledge (arcana) except as DM fiat.

The DM is ruling that the halfling bard cannot benefit from my treat disease heal check in place of his save because I'm not aware of the fact that the creature spreads disease.

What is your opinion of this ruling? If someone is bit by something, especially if it's rat-like, isn't it common sense that you would treat the patient as if it were diseased?

If your character is unaware of the rat being a wererat, I'd agree with this ruling, but I'd let you roll a knowledge (local) and heal check to try to figure it out.

But, note that it's not in place of his immediate save. You must be talking about the secondary save after giving him a sprig of belladonna. Why is he eating that sprig if no one knows it's a wererat bite?

 

[takasi]

Why is he eating that sprig if no one knows it's a wererat bite?

I wasn't aware of that component requirement for treat disease. My character should though, assuming he can identify the disease but I'm trying to determine what checks, by raw, he would make to do so.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I wasn't aware of that component requirement for treat disease. My character should though, assuming he can identify the disease but I'm trying to determine what checks, by raw, he would make to do so.

Ah, then I see you aren't understanding lycanthropy (perhaps in order to stay in character you have not read the section on how to cure it). Stop reading now if you don't want to know more. There are basically four ways to "cure" lycanthropy. The first is obvious, making the initial save. There's no healing help to this save, it's all on the character at the moment he got bit (immediate save). Once he fails that save, then you must ascertain that he got bit by a lycanthrope (the stage I assume you're at). If so, then you give him a sprig of belladonna within 1 hour of the bite and he gets a second save at DC 20. It's on this check that the Heal skill can help because if a healing administers the sprig (it doesn't say how), then the character can substitute the Heal modifier if it's higher (and it usually is). If both of those fail, then you can give the character a remove disease or heal spell within 3 days of the bite (by a 12th+ level cleric). The final method is to cast remove curse or break enchantment during the three days of a full moon and have the character succeed at a DC 20 will save. I presume the character can choose to fail the save, and I'm not sure why he wouldn't automatically fail quite honestly given his likely state of mind during those three days.

 

[takasi]

Once he fails that save, then you must ascertain that he got bit by a lycanthrope (the stage I assume you're at).

Yes, this is where I'm at. By the raw how do you determine this?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Yes, this is where I'm at. By the raw how do you determine this?

Well, did you kill the rat or just drive it off? Do you know it's a wererat? If you don't know it's a wererat, you probably have no idea your buddy might be a lycanthrope. But, if you know it's a wererat, I'd allow a knowledge check to determine that they can cause lycanthropy (at least), though I probably would say that that's so common, no knowledge check needed. What knowledge, you ask? Well, like I said previously, knowledge (local). I would probably not allow a heal check to determine that the character has contracted lycanthropy from the wound. I guess you could allow a "treat disease" check on general principle, in case he was diseased from the rat (not unreasonable), but it would definitely not be treating a supernatural effect like lycanthropy which has explicit rules on its usage (i.e. requiring belladonna).

In this scenario, the DM used knowledge (arcana) instead of knowledge (local). Since there's no explicit ruling on lycanthropes or even shapechangers in general, I guess he has the right to that. Regardless, unless you have fresh belladonna (no more than 1 week old), you're likely out of luck anyway.