Tremorsense vs. invisibility

[mattmaz]

Does tremorsense negate invisiblity? I understand that something with tremorsense would know where the invisible foe is, but would the 50% miss chance still apply?

Thanks,



TREMORSENSE
A creature with tremorsense automatically senses the location of anything that is in contact with the ground and within range.

If no straight path exists through the ground from the creature to those that it’s sensing, then the range defines the maximum distance of the shortest indirect path. It must itself be in contact with the ground, and the creatures must be moving.

As long as the other creatures are taking physical actions, including casting spells with somatic components, they’re considered moving; they don’t have to move from place to place for a creature with tremorsense to detect them.

 

[hong]

Tremorsense means you know what square the foe is in, but you still have the 50% miss chance.

 

[shilsen]

Tremorsense means you know what square the foe is in, but you still have the 50% miss chance.

What he said.

 

[mattmaz]

Thanks for the info. The reason it was in question is becuase either the DMG or MM uses the words "pinpoints the location". The DM's interpretation was that meant the creature knew exactly where the foe was with no miss chance.

 

[Jesus_marley]

I would rule that tremorsense trumps invisibility. One can argue that a creature with tremorsense does not need eyes to locate an object. Since invisibility affects vision, tremorsense would be unaffected.

 

[phindar]

The hard part of Invis is not that you can't see them (50% Miss Chance), its that you don't know where they are. You have to pick the right hex to even get a miss chance. Tremorsense lets you pinpoint the hex, so all you have to do is hit the ac and beat the 50%. Blindsight is what trumps invisibility.

 

[Quartz]

Have you seen the film Tremors? If you stay absolutely still, you can't be detected by Tremorsense.

 

[Dross]

I'd also add:
Tremorsense does not tell you whether the opponent is: high or short, wide or thin, prone or ducking or bent double or standing. This is what the 50% miss chance is for.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Thanks for the info. The reason it was in question is becuase either the DMG or MM uses the words "pinpoints the location". The DM's interpretation was that meant the creature knew exactly where the foe was with no miss chance.

The phrase "pinpoint the location" is used frequently in the rules with respect to invisibility, and it means that you know what square the creature is in.

It's clear in this rule in particular, from the DMG entry for Invisibility under Special Abilities and Conditions:
It’s practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature’s location with a Spot check, and even if a character succeeds on such a check, the invisible creature still benefits from total concealment (50% miss chance).
... that "pinpoint the location" does not include "remove the miss chance".

-Hyp.

 

[Sejs]

What he said.

What he said he said.