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Trip ... Prone ... Getting Up
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<blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 1500163" data-attributes="member: 3146"><p>It's already been stated. (There are actually at least two justifications).</p><p></p><p>1. The rules don't explicitly say that a successful AoO can disrupt the "stand up" action. If the rules don't explicitly say that an action can be interrupted, it can't be. Therefore, an AoO provoked for standing up can not disrupt the stand up action.</p><p></p><p>2. An AoO occurs before the action provoking it is completed. In D&D, standing up is a binary action--you're either standing or prone. (There is also kneeling but there is no suggestion that characters move to kneeling in the process of standing up). Therefore the provoking character is prone when the AoO occurs. If the resulting AoO trips him, it does not change his state (he simply continues to be prone). At the end of the action (after provoking the AoO) the character ceases to be prone (which he was whether or not he was tripped on the AoO) and becomes standing.</p><p></p><p>Most arguments for being able to trip standing characters rely upon "common sense" reading an intermediate state into the equation where the character provokes the AoO.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually that is easily inferred from the rule that you provoke an AoO when leaving a threatened square. Your condition at the time the AoO is provoked determines the consequences of the AoO. Unlike the standing up example, the game provides examples of many transitionary steps between being 10 feet from you and 30 feet past you--at least two (moving into the square and moving out of it) for each square that the foe moves through. The rules provide no similar transitional states between prone and standing.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As explained above, there are other logically consistent positions. Common sense may agree more with your position. I (and others) maintain that the opposite position is important to game balance.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You clearly don't deal with tripping characters very often. A character with the improved trip feat gets to do damage in addition to tripping his foes since he gets a free attack after a successful trip. A wolf or other creature with the trip ability deals damage to its foe and then makes the opposed trip check. And, at most levels, the damage gained from +4 to hit (either through extra hits or though power attack) the prone opponent will equal the damage lost on a single AoO on the tripped foe.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>One example from the peculiar experience of your home game does not make conclusive evidence. There are plenty of anecdotes from other games where tripping has been very useful. I could list several anecdotes where my fighter survived because he was able to trip his foes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Elder-Basilisk, post: 1500163, member: 3146"] It's already been stated. (There are actually at least two justifications). 1. The rules don't explicitly say that a successful AoO can disrupt the "stand up" action. If the rules don't explicitly say that an action can be interrupted, it can't be. Therefore, an AoO provoked for standing up can not disrupt the stand up action. 2. An AoO occurs before the action provoking it is completed. In D&D, standing up is a binary action--you're either standing or prone. (There is also kneeling but there is no suggestion that characters move to kneeling in the process of standing up). Therefore the provoking character is prone when the AoO occurs. If the resulting AoO trips him, it does not change his state (he simply continues to be prone). At the end of the action (after provoking the AoO) the character ceases to be prone (which he was whether or not he was tripped on the AoO) and becomes standing. Most arguments for being able to trip standing characters rely upon "common sense" reading an intermediate state into the equation where the character provokes the AoO. Actually that is easily inferred from the rule that you provoke an AoO when leaving a threatened square. Your condition at the time the AoO is provoked determines the consequences of the AoO. Unlike the standing up example, the game provides examples of many transitionary steps between being 10 feet from you and 30 feet past you--at least two (moving into the square and moving out of it) for each square that the foe moves through. The rules provide no similar transitional states between prone and standing. As explained above, there are other logically consistent positions. Common sense may agree more with your position. I (and others) maintain that the opposite position is important to game balance. You clearly don't deal with tripping characters very often. A character with the improved trip feat gets to do damage in addition to tripping his foes since he gets a free attack after a successful trip. A wolf or other creature with the trip ability deals damage to its foe and then makes the opposed trip check. And, at most levels, the damage gained from +4 to hit (either through extra hits or though power attack) the prone opponent will equal the damage lost on a single AoO on the tripped foe. One example from the peculiar experience of your home game does not make conclusive evidence. There are plenty of anecdotes from other games where tripping has been very useful. I could list several anecdotes where my fighter survived because he was able to trip his foes. [/QUOTE]
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