Trip ... Prone ... Getting Up

[Azure Trance]

Question here. A person fails his trip check and gets tripped. The now prone target must get up again, but getting up is not a full round action; does it, as a result, allow attack of opportunities?

Here's the situation I've been in: Druid with wolf companion. Wolf trips. Druid summons more wolves. Target never gets up.

 

[Kemrain]

I do believe, standing from prone is a move equivelant action that provokes attacks of opportunity.

- Kemrain the Prone.

 

[Geoff Watson]

Getting up from prone does allow attacks of opportunity.
While the AoOs are resolved while the victim is still prone (getting +4 to hit), they don't prevent him from standing. Only manuevers where it specifically states that a successful AoO prevents the manuever (eg disarm, grapple) is the maneuver prevented.

Geoff.

 

[two]

Getting up from prone does allow attacks of opportunity.
While the AoOs are resolved while the victim is still prone (getting +4 to hit), they don't prevent him from standing. Only manuevers where it specifically states that a successful AoO prevents the manuever (eg disarm, grapple) is the maneuver prevented.

Geoff.

AOOs are resolved before the action triggering them; that does not mean in "game time" they occur before the triggering action.

It's not explicitly stated what happens if you use an AOO to trip somebody that is attempting to stand up from prone. I think it's utterly daffy to allow the folloing scenario:

1) PC1 (on ground) I'm getting up to kill that ORK.
2) GM OK that provokes an attack of opportunity. [roll, calculate] He trips you again.
3) PC1 Oh shucks, the ORK tripped me while i was lying on the ground. That sucks. Ok, well after he tripped me while i was lying on my stomach, knocking me prone (again), I finish getting up. I'm standing, right?
4) GM (huh?)

"Common sense", barring a direct rule to the contrary, should be the guide here.

If you trip somebody using the AOO from their standing up, the "trip" occurs at some point in the process of their standing (when they are on one knee, or 99% standing, or propped up on an elbow). If the trip works, the unlucky fellow is prone again, and has used up a move equivalent action.

Otherwise, well, you are allowed to trip somebody that is prone for something they have not even started yet (standing up) or letting them "double dip" and stand up twice (trip occurred when X was 99% standing, then X goes prone, then X stands up fully, which is a lot of up and down for one MEA). Whatever.

 

[Azure Trance]

Getting up from prone does allow attacks of opportunity.
While the AoOs are resolved while the victim is still prone (getting +4 to hit), they don't prevent him from standing. Only manuevers where it specifically states that a successful AoO prevents the manuever (eg disarm, grapple) is the maneuver prevented.

Geoff.

Hrm. It seemed logical to us at the time of the opposite; target tries to get up (yet still technically prone), suffers an AoO with a trip, and is "tripped" back down. At least he can get up now (to be tripped next initiative sequence).

 

[Darklone]

Hrm. It seemed logical to us at the time of the opposite; target tries to get up (yet still technically prone), suffers an AoO with a trip, and is "tripped" back down. At least he can get up now (to be tripped next initiative sequence).

It may seem somehow logical... but it would be strong bordering on highly unbalanced played like this.

You haven't been wrong ... it's just better that way.

 

[Geoff Watson]

AOOs are resolved before the action triggering them; that does not mean in "game time" they occur before the triggering action.

It's not explicitly stated what happens if you use an AOO to trip somebody that is attempting to stand up from prone. I think it's utterly daffy to allow the folloing scenario:

1) PC1 (on ground) I'm getting up to kill that ORK.
2) GM OK that provokes an attack of opportunity. [roll, calculate] He trips you again.
3) PC1 Oh shucks, the ORK tripped me while i was lying on the ground. That sucks. Ok, well after he tripped me while i was lying on my stomach, knocking me prone (again), I finish getting up. I'm standing, right?
4) GM (huh?)

"Common sense", barring a direct rule to the contrary, should be the guide here.

If you trip somebody using the AOO from their standing up, the "trip" occurs at some point in the process of their standing (when they are on one knee, or 99% standing, or propped up on an elbow). If the trip works, the unlucky fellow is prone again, and has used up a move equivalent action.

Otherwise, well, you are allowed to trip somebody that is prone for something they have not even started yet (standing up) or letting them "double dip" and stand up twice (trip occurred when X was 99% standing, then X goes prone, then X stands up fully, which is a lot of up and down for one MEA). Whatever.

It's a game balance issue.
If you were able to trip like you suggest, it would make tripping far too good in comparison with other tactics.

Geoff.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Getting up from prone does allow attacks of opportunity. While the AoOs are resolved while the victim is still prone (getting +4 to hit), they don't prevent him from standing. Only manuevers where it specifically states that a successful AoO prevents the manuever (eg disarm, grapple) is the maneuver prevented.

Geoff.

Thanks Geoff, our group plays it this way but by far this is the most succinct and to the point explanation I've come across yet.

 

[barsoomcore]

What? I'm getting confused over what has never seemed like a complicated issue to me.

Fred's action: Fred trips George
George's action: George gets up. Fred takes AoO and trips George. George has finished first action and is prone. If George wants, he can get up NOW (using their second move action), provoking another AoO if Fred has one.

I'd like to know the sense behind asserting that a successful trip attack does not prevent someone from standing. I mean, game balance statements aside, it seems to me that the rules are obvious on this one -- if you're tripped, you fall down. You become prone.

I mean, if somebody starts 10 feet from you and moves 30 feet past you, and you make an AoO against them and trip them, they don't fall down 20 feet away. Their action has been interrupted at the point where you made the trip. It doesn't say that anywhere in the rules because it's obvious. Likewise, if you make an AoO and attempt to trip someone standing up, you've just tripped them again. They are now prone and can take their next action, if they have one.

This seems like the only sensible option.

And it's not a killer move because you're not doing any damage to them. You can keep them prone for ten rounds and at one point miss your trip attempt and they're just as tough as they were ten rounds ago (only now kind of pissed off). Trust me, I had a character whose compatriot was convinced that he could trip his enemies into submission.

Only one of us survived. Doing damage to your enemy is almost always better than discommoding them in other ways.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

And it's not a killer move because you're not doing any damage to them. You can keep them prone for ten rounds and at one point miss your trip attempt and they're just as tough as they were ten rounds ago (only now kind of pissed off).

I suspect that the balance issue is more related to your fellow party members who may be waiting to smack the enemy once he's down. While you're not doing any more damage to him, your friends can (and get a +4 bonus to hit to boot) and you are preventing him from taking actions while prone (aside from attempt to stand or making attacks at -4 (I believe)).

IMC the issue hasn't really come up yet and I'm not sure which way I'll rule it if it does. I'll probably rule it that the Trip attempt on the AoO from standing occurs before the character stand and since the character is still prone the Trip is basically wasted. It sucks to take options away from the party in combat or to nerf one of their feats, but on the other hand, they won't have to worry about it being used against them (a more than equal tradeoff as they routinely get in fights with creatures bigger, stronger, and frequently, tactically smarter than them).

Edited: 2 desguise splling mstaks & bad gramr.