Trouble with Portable Holes

[fourthmensch]

My players spent a good portion of the last session planning a detailed ambush that involved the use of a portable hole. I'll spare you the details about the scenario, as they aren't really important to the queston--suffice to say that I found the description in the DMG somewhat vague, and I'm not sure I really understand how this item is supposed to work. So I'm left with a number of questions:

1. So the portable hole creates a 10 foot deep extradimensional pocket to come into being when spread upon a surface. Does this mean that if you place it against a 5 foot-thick wall it allows you to pass through and emerge through the other side? Or is it simply a self-contained pocket?

2. The hole can be picked up from outside or in. So what happens if someone inside the hole tries to pull it through? One of my players asked me, and my first instinct was that it might cause a rift in the space time continuum... but surely there is a better answer )).

3. If someone steps inside of the hole (say, as a hiding place) and then leaves the hole open, is he then visible to those outside of the hole? Or is the interior of the hole pitch black?

I would be greatly appreciative if anyone could clear this up for me.

 

[hong]

1) Note the "extradimensional" in "extradimensional space".

2) Turning a portable hole inside out is not something that's addressed in the rules. Rule it as it suits you.

3) Why on earth do you think the inside of a portable hole looks different to any other hole?

 

[BSF]

1. So the portable hole creates a 10 foot deep extradimensional pocket to come into being when spread upon a surface. Does this mean that if you place it against a 5 foot-thick wall it allows you to pass through and emerge through the other side? Or is it simply a self-contained pocket?

I would say no. It is an extradimensional pocket, not the Passwall spell.

2. The hole can be picked up from outside or in. So what happens if someone inside the hole tries to pull it through? One of my players asked me, and my first instinct was that it might cause a rift in the space time continuum... but surely there is a better answer )).

I'm not sure I understand. It is a pocket, so you could fold it up to close it. Pulling it through would seem to be the same as turning it inside out. Though, there is nothing official on this, so you could also use it as an interesting story hook wherein the PC(s) end up someplace completly unexpected.

3. If someone steps inside of the hole (say, as a hiding place) and then leaves the hole open, is he then visible to those outside of the hole? Or is the interior of the hole pitch black?

It's just a pocket. In itself, that is pretty dang cool so it isn't like the item is screaming to be more useful as some sort of extradimensional hunting blind.

 

[fourthmensch]

1) Note the "extradimensional" in "extradimensional space".

Noted. I'm not quite clear on your point though.

I would say no. It is an extradimensional pocket, not the Passwall spell.

Yes, that seems to be what is implied by the description. I think that's the part that's confusing me. When I think of portable holes, I generally think of the cartoon holes that you could use to bypass walls and then peel off and take with you.

If this is not the case (and I agree that the item description implies that it is not), then how is a portable hole any different from a bag of holding? Why is it a separate magical item if they accomplish the same thing (eg, extradimensional storage)?

 

[Li Shenron]

Noted. I'm not quite clear on your point though.

Hong meant that since the hole gets you to an extra dimension, you are not in your 3D space anymore, so you don't simply step to the other side of the wall. Once inside the hole, your not anywhere in the material world anymore.

 

[Gnimish88]

Noted. I'm not quite clear on your point though.


Yes, that seems to be what is implied by the description. I think that's the part that's confusing me. When I think of portable holes, I generally think of the cartoon holes that you could use to bypass walls and then peel off and take with you.

If this is not the case (and I agree that the item description implies that it is not), then how is a portable hole any different from a bag of holding? Why is it a separate magical item if they accomplish the same thing (eg, extradimensional storage)?

I would say it is one of those grandfathered items that stuck around from edition to edition because no one could concieve of dropping it.

That said, it doesn't weigh anything, unlike bags of holding.

 

[The Souljourner]

It's a heck of a lot bigger than a bag of holding, it has a wide mouthed opening for inserting large things (like boats), and it weighs as much as a piece of cloth (which is to say, pretty much 0).

With the bags, you have to worry about sharp things piercing them, because they are still just bags, the only difference is, they're bigger on the inside than on the outside. Portable holes are effectively a mini-dimension all their own, so no worries about poking through, just like you don't have to worry about poking through this dimension into another with the knife in your pocket.

The drawback to the hole is that you have to lay it down on a flat surface to open it, can't just reach in and grab stuff when it's in your backpack.

In answer to the original three questions -

1.) no, it is not a cartoon hole. It doesn't pass through things. When you lay it on a surface, a portal to another dimension (albeit a very small dimension) is opened. the dimension has only one way in or out, and that's the mouth of the portable hole.

2.) You can't pull it through. As soon as you pick up the hole from the surface, the opening closes. I would say this means that you can seal yourself in the hole, but then you're stuck there until someone from the outside lays it flat again. Of course, this is just my opinion, but it seems to make sense.

3.) While the hole is open, it looks in all ways like a regular 10' hole. If they could see you in a normal 10' hole, they could see you in the portable hole. Nothing says otherwise, and I think it would be terribly inconvenient not to be able to see into your own container.

-The Souljourner

 

[hong]

3.) While the hole is open, it looks in all ways like a regular 10' hole. If they could see you in a normal 10' hole, they could see you in the portable hole. Nothing says otherwise, and I think it would be terribly inconvenient not to be able to see into your own container.

If I could see into my own container, I'd never leave the house!

... well, actually, maybe I would.

 

[KerlanRayne]

One of the old Dragon Magazines has a great article called "101 Uses for a Portable Hole." A great idea they have is to create a split level cylinder just big enough to slide into the Hole and would be great for a halfling or gnome to live in, with built in bed, shelves, ect. If you're really small you could make it three levels. You can use it at night, or if you don't need to breathe (through magic other means) you could have a friend carry it with you inside. I've always wanted to try this out with a wizard.

KerlanRayne

 

[BSF]

Yes, that seems to be what is implied by the description. I think that's the part that's confusing me. When I think of portable holes, I generally think of the cartoon holes that you could use to bypass walls and then peel off and take with you.

If this is not the case (and I agree that the item description implies that it is not), then how is a portable hole any different from a bag of holding? Why is it a separate magical item if they accomplish the same thing (eg, extradimensional storage)?

A Portable Hole is significantly different from a Bag of Holding. Weight and size are two notable areas. A Portable Hole can hold a huge quantity of material in comparison to any of the Bags, and it effectively has no weight.

As for why it exists, part of it is history. As I recall, Gary Gygax implied that the first Portable Hole he gave out was literally a hole in the floor and one of the players tried lifting the edge. At the time, it probably looked like a cheesy pit obstacle.

It would be interesting to make it apply in more of a versatile, cartoon-ish fashion. It would also be interesting to create a couple of variants of a Portable Hole. Make one that does a temporary passwall until moved. Heh, even more insidious would be as soon as it is moved, the hole is refilled. Any items inside are now integrated with the earth/stone. Otherwise, there is still plenty of utility for a Portable Hole. Heck, you can put a 10' ladder in one of those. How much rope, spikes, water skins, rations, arrows, flasks of oil, etc can you carry? It's a private storeroom.

Storywise, there is plenty that a group can do with a Portable Hole as well. You can smuggle people and items in and out of places with a Portable Hole. Heh - I think my players would love to have a Portable Hole. I might need to find a way to get one into their possession soon.