Trouble with Short Rest and Healing Word

[Jim Williams]

There is letter of the law and spirit of the law. And the sort of healing micromanagement mentioned in the original post strikes me as running counter the spirit of the law.


If I could not discourage my players from engaging in such metagaming pursuits, I would rule as Old Gumphrey. After a fight:

• Each player immediately spends enough available healing surges to return to as close to full hp as possible without wasting recovery hp. The player can choose to use additional available healing surges to return to full hp. For example, a rogue with 15 hp out of 24 hp and a healing surge value of 6 would be mandated to use one available healing surge to return to 21 hp. The player could then choose to use an additional available healing surge to recover the final 3 hp, returning to full at 24 hp.
• Any powers, items, etc. that are not expended during the fight can be exhausted to amplify healing at the respective players' discretion.

In this manner, healing effects do get to be utilized, everyone is done after a short rest, and post-combat recovery micromanagement is quashed.

My logic here is that the body, mind, and spirit do not necessarily choose when to recover. They simply will when given a short rest.

 

[Nail]

There is letter of the law and spirit of the law.

...and how do you have special knowledge of the spirit of the law?

 

[Jim Williams]

...and how do you have special knowledge of the spirit of the law?

Because in my game, I am the law.

I'll quote myself here (emphasizing for effect):

And the sort of healing micromanagement mentioned in the original post strikes me as running counter the spirit of the law.

For me, the interpretation of the original posters' players is against the spirit of the rules.

If five folks sit down at a table and spamming Healing Word over several simultaneous short rests is how they want to roll, more power to them. I am not going to tell others how they should run their game. But at my table, I don't like to see this sort of micromanaging metagaming.

 

[Nail]

Because in my game, I am the law.

There's gotta be a Judge Dread quote applicable here.

 

[ObsidianCrane]

Because in my game, I am the law.

See "for me" is not actually a specific declartion that your statements applies only to you and your group, further the "spirit of the rules" is not something you or your group holds control over, so you cannot have ownership of it, even in your group. You own the application and interpretation of the rules in your game, the spirit of the rules exists outside that.


Anyway, the advantage of using Healing or Inspiring Word outside combat is that you use less surges so encounter 3 is less daunting, most characters will have at least 1 surge left, and the cleric will have 2 healing words left.

I've played games where it wasn't possible to rest between the 2nd and 3rd encounter without letting an important NPC die, that was tough, as that meant no Healing Word at all if it was used in the 2nd encounter.

So for me, ultimately its not an issue if the PCs get a healing boost between combats, however if you don't want them having a second set of boosted healing have a patrol run into them every now and then and push them harder. Heck have a second patrol turn up right at the end of the battle with the first patrol, have one run away to tell the boss and now the PCs are faced with a need to retreat with the knowledge the monsters are looking for them actively.

Now they have to retreat, or push forward quickly to find a new location to take their 5 minute rest, if they retreat it becomes a skill challenge with them trying to flee the monster lair before they are caught by a patrol. This isn't a rest, so no surges etc again unless they win the skill challenge. (Heck you can have the 2nd patrol shout out and alert the party to their presence, a PC can see them send a runner off to tell the boss and now the need to flee should be apparent anyway, and you get a chase scene where the PCs are trying to escape to get that rest. If they win let them get a short rest before a slightly buffed patrol catches them, then put the chase on again.)

See this is the thing, a short rest probably lets you get by without something happening. Take that second one and something is likely happening to you, especially if you are in a dungeon. Going through fights with limited or no healing other than second wind can be tough.

 

[keterys]

But at my table, I don't like to see this sort of micromanaging metagaming.

So why is the response to eliminate the option, rather than just saying "And so all of your surges get the benefit of healing word"? *curious*

After all, that's not metagamed or micromanaged and it's within the spirit of the game, while not hindering gameplay excessively (my primary objection).

Presumably at least some of the more negative responses are also objections to the idea of getting that healing on _all_ surges, because that's unbalanced or objectionable in some fashion.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

#3) Not letting Clerics use their Healing Word out of combat means parties with a cleric heal no better than parties without a cleric.

...and that's just silly.

That would be silly. However, that is absolutely, positively not the case. Clerics let you spend your surges in combat (you can't do that on your own). Clerics also add TONS of hit points to your surge value (thus healing far more than a party without a cleric). A 7th level cleric can have upwards of 5 or 6 combat heals. That's an extra 50-60 HP ON TOP of surge value just because a cleric did it, and that's before we pimp the system and let them do this at-will outside of a combat.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

I'll also add that my party's survivability is completely obscene. There's simply no reason to let them get a bonus on every single healing surge forever just because a cleric is standing there, since they are already near death-proof.

There is no balance reason to allow it, either, because it would 1) make healers 100% necessary (bad) and 2) make encounters terribly easy. Seriously, why adventure without a warlord or cleric when they can double or even triple the output of every single healing surge? No one class or role is supposed to be that vital anymore.

 

[Nail]

Seriously, why adventure without a warlord or cleric when they can double or even triple the output of every single healing surge?

There are two answers to that:

Answer#1: "You aren't supposed to adventure in 4e without the main roles filled. So you still aren't supposed to adventure without a warlord or cleric."

Answer #2: "Because out-of-combat healing is No Big Deal(tm) in 4e. Don't sweat it; that's so 3.xe."

In 4e, it's all about what you can do inside an encounter. (...And encounters are often 'combat encounters'.) How often you can sing Puff The Magic Dragon (or use HW) outside of an encounter is irrelevant.

So, with a cleric, you are able to maximize your healing surges outside of combat. That's entirely valid, IMO. 4e isn't a game in which we sweat that kind of stuff. Inside of combat, however, the "economy of actions" comes into play, which ultimately limits how effective a cleric (or any other leader class) can be.

*************

BTW: You have "death-proof" PCs? Send 'em my way......

 

[keterys]

I'll also add that my party's survivability is completely obscene.

Out of combat healing shouldn't impact this seriously - what you're actually stopping is a lengthening of the adventure day (which is generally considered a _good_ thing to be longer) because of them not running out of surges. In combat they'll still perform exactly the same.

There's simply no reason to let them get a bonus on every single healing surge forever just because a cleric is standing there

Except for the fact that the cleric does give that ability. Hence, there is a glaring reason.

There is no balance reason to allow it, either

Sure there is - it's the main benefit of the leader class, much like marking or bonus damage for defenders and strikers. It's unbalanced to remove it.

1) make healers 100% necessary (bad)

No, it wouldn't. It would have 0 effect on actual encounters, and only affect pacing (how many encounters between rests, etc)

2) make encounters terribly easy

Zero effect.

Seriously, why adventure without a warlord or cleric when they can double or even triple the output of every single healing surge? No one class or role is supposed to be that vital anymore.

They're all that vital. Why adventure without a striker when they can do so much damage? Why adventure without a defender when they can prevent others from dying? Why adventure without a controller when they can prevent you from taking so much damage?