Trumps similar to those in Amber

[Digital M@]

OK, I am looking for some ideas for creating a magic item. I want to add Trumps like the ones Zelazney used in his Amber books. Basically, a Wizard creates a trump card with a picture on it and anyone with any magic ability could use it to communicate with the person painted or teleport to the place painted upon it. Non magic peole could be contacted and travel through the trump with someone, but not initiate contact.

Once I introduce these, I am sure my players will want to create them. I am very weak at the rules sides of creating magic items. Any ideas on the spells and XP required as well as cost would be appreciated.

Thank you

 

[Frostmane]

Offhand, I'd say it'd require Teleport without Error, Sending, Detect Thoughts and Scrying to make an Amber-style Trump. I'd have it be a spell-trigger item,w ith unlimited uses but possibly deal fatigue or attribute-drain to use.

EDit: On reflection, you might want to look into the Complete book of Eldtritch Might or the Book of Eldritch might 3 download: Both have the 'Window to elswehere' and 'Door to' spell line, as well as spells for attacking through a Scry/Trump conduit, transporting people items, etc. It might be a worthwhile purchase, to say the least.

My suggestion of Con damage is based on mentions of how 'wearing' Trump use and mental strife through them can be in the books. I recall the Amber Diceless rpg implying a non Amberite/Chaosite would find the use of a Trump extremely taxing as well.

 

[Lorgrom]

Since they are a form of Wonderious Item. I would use the formula in the DMG to figure the cost. I agree with Frostmane on the spell requirements for creating them. Though I would probably add in a temp Con damage cost of say d4+1. As a way of reducing how many the characters make. Magic items of that sort tend to cause major changes in how the party will deal with things.

 

[azhrei_fje]

I haven't read the Amber series, but I have a 12th level mage IMC that has a similar desire to create the cards.

I agree with Lorgrom (who agreed with ...) about the temporary Con damage (d4+1 seems reasonable). I would probably limit each card to being used once per day as well.

Given the limited use and the Con damage, they would probably be priced at about 30,000 gp (the cards wouldn't be as good as the boots of teleportation, but the boots cost 49k gp). I want them to be expensive enough in XP that the party won't want to make one for every important person they meet.

Be careful in how you judge their use, too. Would they be an easy get-out-of-jail-free card in the middle of a big battle? Do you want that? If not, set the activation time to 5 rounds or something similar. If you don't mind that concept so much, then a standard action is fine. Adjust the price based on its usefulness -- using the formulas from the DMG would give a good guideline, but don't be constrained by the numbers you come up with...

 

[Digital M@]

A get out of jail free use would be fine by me. I think an extra XP cost for making these cards, a concentration check and a cost of around 30K fwould be enough to limit thier uses. I could also put a limit on the uses per card. They could burn out the parchment after a certain amount of uses. I was also thinking of requiring an Artist check DC 15 to pull it off. I think Con dmg is also a good idea, but I think 1d4 may be a bit much. Why do you think it should be si high? I often overlook abuse potential

 

[Nyeshet]

Well, technically it should be:

Detect Thoughts [Sor/Wiz 2] 1800 * 2 * 1.5 = 5400
Scrying [Sor/Wiz 4] 1800 * 4 * 1.5 = 10800
Sending [Sor/Wiz 5] 1800 * 5 * 1.5 = 13500
Teleport, Greater [Sor/Wiz 7] 1800 * 7 = 12600

Total Cost = 42,300 gp (21,150 gp / 1,680 xp to make)

However, this seems rather high considering (1) the as yet not deducted cost per use (1d4 + 1 Con), and (2) the highly specific target of use (ie: cannot use Detect Thoughts, Scrying, Sending, Greater Teleport on any one or any place - must use on the pictured person / place). In fact, considering its cost it is unlikely to be used by most more than two or three times per day (unless mid-level magical healing is readily available or multiple individuals are willing to pay the price), and its extremely specific target makes it again much less likely to see common daily use (in most instances, not in all). So perhaps treating it as akin to a Charged item and granting it a cost of 1000 gp * Spell level is more realistic. Then there is the fact that the spells associated with it are highly specific in their target, and some are chosen for flavor rather than common use, so perhaps the penalty for muliple spells should also be dropped (or limited to only 1.25x instead of 1.5x). This results in the following:

(1x, 1.25x, 1.5x)
Detect Thoughts: 2k or 2.5k or 3k
Scrying: 4k or 5k or 6k
Sending: 5k or 6250 or 7.5k
Teleport, Greater: 7k
Total Cost: 18,000 or 20,750 or 23,500 gp

So I would call it around 20,000 gp [10,000 gp / 800 xp to craft] due to its cost per use (1d4 +1 Con dmg) and highly specific target (as painted, not any desired). Considering its cost the entire party is unlikely to have more than one or two of these around mid levels, and at high levels each party member may have (at most) no more than two or three each considering the cost and its drain upon resouces perhaps better spent on other magic items.

So what do you all think? Does 20k sound about right, or should it be the prior 40k. Or perhaps I should average the two for about 30k for the item instead?

[Edit]
Well, it seems others have chimed in since I began working out the cost. So about 30k sounds reasonable? I hadn't considered the 'get out of jail free' aspect, but any jail made to hold magical beings (or those still possessing magical items) should have Dimension Anchor upon it anyway - negating the usefulness of that aspect of the card. I'm still not certain about 30k, simply because the Detect Thoughts / Sending is limited to a single target, and the Scrying / Greater Teleport is limited to a single location. That seems a rather stringent limitation to me, and the cost should drop even more if it is limited to one use per day and deals 2-5 Con dmg per use. Unless you make it a slotless item. Only then could I see it as 30k -40k gp in cost.

It has been a while since I read the Amber novels. How were these cards typically used, and by the text did it seem to take a few moments to activate them? The idea of making them Charged items is quite nice also, and it makes the costs more reasonable, I think. Hmm, actually, the more I think of this, the more I think it should be priced as a Staff (only wondrous due to its shape and its highly specific target - oh, and its penalty for use).

So it would be:

Greater Teleport: (375 gp * 7 SpLv * 13 CL * 0.5 [2 charges used]) = [17,062.5] +
Sending: (281.25 gp * 5 SpLv * 13 CL *1) = [18281.25] +
Scrying: (187.5 gp * 4 SpLv * 13 CL * 1) = [9750] +
Detect Thoughts: (187.5 gp * 2 SpLv * 13 CL *1) = [4875]
Total = 49969 ~ 50,000 gp

Now, this is quite powerful, but it presumes the spells can be used on any target. I would reduce the cost by perhaps one-quarter to half due to the highly specific target. This results in 25,000 to 37,500 gp, for an average of 31,250 gp - which sounds about right. And I note that Staffs do not normally take up body-slots, so there is no need to adjust the price for that. Of course, there is still the matter of the Con dmg, but I as I have already reduced the price to 2/3 that of a staff, I would simply presume it counted in with the prior cost reduction. Finally, I would round down to 30,000 for simplicities sake. As the item is slotless (innately, due to Staff cost patterns) I can readily accept the resultant cost of 30k gp (15k gp / 1200 xp to craft).

Note that due to the spells required the caster must be no less than 13th level to create such an item (thus the price above). Higher casters will result in higher prices.

 

[Cheiromancer]

I don't agree that it should do Con damage. You might also want to use Word of Recall instead of Greater Teleport, just for thematic reasons.

To be faithful to the books you would need a separate, trained only skill (Use Trumps) to use their effects. Contacting someone or opening a portal would require a skill check, invokes an AoO and might take a few rounds. A trump focusing on a character should require a skill check from that character, too.

Even if you can use it as often as you like- how often are you going to want to the same location in a single day?

It would be inappropriate for it to use a slot. It's a card, after all.

I'd make it between 10 000 and 30 000 depending on the flavor of the campaign, and whether you need to invest skill ranks in Use Trump.

 

[Nifft]

Er... http://d20srd.org/srd/spells/refuge.htm

Add a "sending 1/day" effect in there, and you're golden -- er, Amber.

-- N

 

[Nyeshet]

Refuge is interesting, but I wonder a bit about it. As a 9th level spell it cannot be created except by near-epic level characters. Also, the use of the item destroys it, and from what I recall Trumps were not auto-destroyed upon teleportational use.

Use Magic Device would work well enough for Use Trump, I think.

I really need to re-read the Amber novels if I am going to meaningfully aid this thread. I'm working with faded memories and conjecture based upon what I am reading in this thread.

So the item can act as a Scrying focus. Well, as it must (initially) be a Masterwork Illumination (miniature painting) it can readily act as such anyway. Unless it can scry upon the current situation in the location pictured it does not need the Scrying spell associated with it, although those that know the spell may use the Trump as a focus for such due to its excellent representation of the location (and those with Clairvoyance may use the Trump to scry upon the person depicted on the Trump, if it is that type instead of a location type).

Detect Thoughts / Sending. I'm guessing these work more or less together, allowing converse with the one pictured on the Trump (if it is a portrait rather than a landscape). So perhaps these can be amalgamated into a mere Sending, reducing the cost and keeping the flavor. As Sending allows for an answer I think this is not problematic. And if it allows at will (or based upon charges) then conversations may exist for a few rounds - burning up most of the charges in the process, of course.

Could a Trump allow for more than one use of portal? If so Refuge cannot be used and Greater Teleport becomes again the preferred spell for this use. This is also true if Trumps could be created by those of only mid-level power (13th) as opposed to only the greatest mages (17th).

I think the final idea will be a Staff like item - uses charges, no body-slot, perhaps multiple charges for the portal-style power (Greater Teleport).

- - - - -
[Edit, adding more text rather than New Post]

By the SRD:

Spell Effect / Special: Charged (50 charges): 1/2 unlimited use price
Use-Activated or Continuous (ie: unlimited use): 2,000 gp * CL * Spell level
So, it should be 1,000 gp * CL * Spell Level

Due to using 2 charges we can add in a *0.5 modifier to the Greater Teleport.
However, due to having Sending also associated with it, we need to add in a *1.5 modifier to that spell.
And due to being slotless the entire thing is *2 in cost. However, due to the limitation of a single target we could probably drop that requirement.

So we have: (1000 * 13 * 7 * 0.5) + (1000 * 13 * 5 * 1.5) = 146,250 gp
Needless to say, this is far too costly for the item - especially before doubling, and especially since - if created as a Staff - if would only cost ~18% of this cost (26,500 gp) !

[Staff cost: (375 * 13 * 7 * 0.5) + (281.25 * 13 * 5 * 0.5) = 26,203.125 gp. This presumes 2 charges used for each use of Greater Teleport and Sending. Add 300 gp for masterwork card and round down]

I would go with the Staff cost, myself, and I would not worry about it not being a staff. After all, they can't make it until they are more than high enough in level to craft staves anyway.

 

[azhrei_fje]

My earlier reference to get-out-of-jail-free was not meant to be taken literally. I meant any situation of dire consequences, such as having their rear-ends handed to them by a group of a half-dozen horned devils or some such.

It sounds like most folks are agreeing with 30k gp, no Con damage, slot-less item, with 50 charges.

In the book, how many can be transported with a card? If it's more than just the holder of the card, then refuge is not the right spell. Maybe something like word of recall? It's a lower-level spell (Clr 6) and can transport one medium-sized willing creature per three (caster) levels, and it only teleports the user to a particular place.

That leaves some flavor items: is there a special skill DC to activate it (such as UMD or a custom "Use Trump"), and how long does it take to activate.

Since I'm not familiar with the stories, I'll just sit back and listen now.