Pathfinder 1E Trying to Design Shielding Spells for Pathfinder

[ren1999]

I'm messing around with these spells which I hope to introduce to 5th edition. They are in the Pathfinder format, but I'm new to Pathfinder.

Do you see any mistakes or can you help me balance and improve these shielding spells?

Force Shield
Spell Type: Abjuration
Level: Wizard 1 or Custom Spell Casting Class 1
Casting Time: triggered by attack on caster
Components Verbal, Somatic, Material, Focus (an egg-shaped stone)
Range: touch
Target: self
Duration: encounter
Saving Throw: none
Spell Resistance: no
Effect: adds intelligence modifier to armor class and reflex save
Level-Up Scale: +1 to armor class and reflex save at 11th and 21st level

Endure Element
Spell Type: Abjuration
Level: Wizard 2 or Custom Spell Casting Class 2
Casting Time: triggered by attack on caster
Components Verbal, Somatic, Material, Focus (a warm cloth)
Range: touch
Target: self
Duration: until the end of the caster's next turn
Saving Throw: none
Spell Resistance: no
Effect: the wizard can elect to reduce damage by fire, lightning, or cold by intelligence modifier
Level-Up Scale: reduces damage by an additional -1 at 11th and 21st level

Element Wall
Spell Type: Abjuration
Level: Wizard 3 or Custom Spell Casting Class 3
Casting Time: triggered by attack on caster
Components Verbal, Somatic, Material, Focus (a weapon)
Range: touch
Target: all melee attackers
Duration: until the end of the caster's next turn
Saving Throw: fortitude save versus dc10+spell level 3+caster's intelligence modifier negates the damage
Spell Resistance: 1d20+caster's level
Effect: fire wall:the caster causes 1d6 + 6 ongoing fire damage fortitude save ends or lightning wall:the caster
causes 1d8 lightning damage + stunned condition or wall of ice:the caster causes 1d10 cold damage
Level-Up Scale: +1d6 fire damage at 11th and 21st level + 5 ongoing fire damage

Dispel Magic
Spell Type: Abjuration
Level: Wizard 4 or Custom Spell Casting Class 4
Casting Time: triggered by spell or prayer on caster
Components Verbal, Somatic, Material, Focus (an upside-down word on a page)
Range: touch
Target: 1 spell or prayer
Duration: instantaneous
Saving Throw: will save versus dc10+spell level 4+caster's intelligence modifier continues the spell or prayer

attack
Spell Resistance: 1d20+caster's level
Effect: if the attacker fails the will save, the spell or prayer is negated by the caster

Protective Ward
Spell Type: Abjuration
Level: Wizard 5 or Custom Spell Casting Class 5
Casting Time: triggered by foes disturbing the object
Components Verbal, Somatic, Material, Focus (a stone, a warm cloth, a weapon)
Range: touch
Target: one object to be protected, all foes disturbing the object
Duration: instantaneous
Saving Throw: none
Spell Resistance: none
Effect: the object takes on the hit points, armor class, and saves of the caster and is protected with the Force Shield spell, Endure Element spell and the Element Wall spell


My Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition and Pathfinder Module Tester kira3696.tripod.com/CombatTracker.rar

 

[Derfmancher]

Excuse the noob, but do you want to introduce them to Pathfinder or 5e? They are not the same thing. If 5e this will get moved if you really mean pathfinder I will have a look back at them.

 

[ren1999]

Pathfinder

 

[Salthorae]

I'm not sure what exactly you're going for in these spells as Pathfinder already has (by way of the 3.5 OGL) the 1st level Shield, 1st level Endure Elements, 3rd level Dispel Magic, and 4th level Fire Shield (which does either fire or cold damage as directed on casting)

The only one that is missing is your last one which seems to cast all of the protective spells on an object at one time, and with a Duration of "instant" means they are permanently on it.

Only other difference I see is that you have them all set up as "reaction to being attacked" which in Pathfinder rules would be an immediate action, which are actions you can do even when it's not your turn, but I believe you're limited to single immediate actions in relation to a single event. I.e. one enemy attacks you, you can cast Shield, but not Shield AND Fire Shield... let me know what I'm missing in what you're trying to do here.

 

[paradox42]

Yeah, these definitely look more like 4th Edition powers than Pathfinder spells. No Pathfinder effect of any kind has a duration of "encounter," for example- that has to be changed to something like 1 round/level. And there's no "Level-Up Scale" line in PF spells, either- anything like that is given in the spell's descriptive text below the game stats.

 

[ren1999]

I'm really dumb when it comes to Pathfinder here. I'm needing to memorize a lot of rules such as Spell Resistance is done by looking at the monster's spell resistance number and then having the caster roll a 1d20+the caster's level, correct?

4E is too simple and Pathfinder is too hard. 5E should combine the best of both systems and offer a simple core set of books and an advanced player core set of books.

My Dungeons & Dragons Module Tester kira3696.tripod.com/CombatTracker.rar

 

[kinem]

Instead of trying to design spells for PF right away, maybe you should start by playing it (as a spellcaster).

Anyway, the most important and interesting part of a spell (especially a new spell that you hope people will use) is the multi-paragraph description that gives all of the quirks, what-ifs, and various points of flavor that can be exploited by clever players in the right situations. This does not exist in 4E, of course.

You have to see what spells already exist. The other thing is that you have to be careful about game balance. Your first proposed spell, "Force Shield" is obviously a rip-off of the regular spell Shield, and poorly designed. It potentially gives a +13 bonus to AC, much too much for a 1st level spell. (+13 is the max bonus a 20th level character can have in any given ability score, so any spell or ability that is based off an ability score should be considered as potentially +13 for balance evaluation.) Its bonus to Reflex saves makes it obviously more powerful than Shield even if the bonus were just +4, which again is no good. The regular Shield spell also protects against magic missile spells, which adds to its power a little but is very situational and thus OK. Any bonus also needs a type, in this case a shield bonus, so it won't stack with other shield effects.

A casting time of an immediate action (which can be used as a reaction to being attacked) is very powerful, and spells like that should be very limited; typically they only last for 1 round.

As paradox said, there's no such thing as an 'encounter' duration. You need to specify duration in terms of time.

Finally, I'll note that focus items are rare for spells and make more sense for spells with unusual effects.

 

[N'raac]

You have to see what spells already exist. The other thing is that you have to be careful about game balance. Your first proposed spell, "Force Shield" is obviously a rip-off of the regular spell Shield, and poorly designed. It potentially gives a +13 bonus to AC, much too much for a 1st level spell. (+13 is the max bonus a 20th level character can have in any given ability score, so any spell or ability that is based off an ability score should be considered as potentially +13 for balance evaluation.) Its bonus to Reflex saves makes it obviously more powerful than Shield even if the bonus were just +4, which again is no good. The regular Shield spell also protects against magic missile spells, which adds to its power a little but is very situational and thus OK. Any bonus also needs a type, in this case a shield bonus, so it won't stack with other shield effects.

It also bears noting that this bonus will be much more useful to a Wizard than a Sorcerer, whose casting stat is Charisma. A static bonus, or a bonus based on caster level, would seem much more appropriate. But we already have plenty of spells to augment DEX (which helps reflex saves and AC), saves in general, and AC. What does this spell add that's not already available?

Cat's Grace adds +4 DEX for long enough to be "one encounter" (one minute per level). That's +2 AC and +2 Reflex Save. It also enhances Initiative and DEX based skills, so it's got a few more benefits, but it's also constrained by armor worn, which restricts DEX bonuses to AC. Maybe plunk the Greater Shield in at 6th level or so, with a Standard Action casting time, same as Mass Cat's Grace - you can get a bigger bonus for one target rather than enhancing the whole team. But I'd definitely set the bonus at something like 1/2 Caster Level. That's still a +5 when you learn L6 spells and a +10 at 20th level, which is pretty extreme. It probably makes a tank virtually unhittable for a encounter.

A casting time of an immediate action (which can be used as a reaction to being attacked) is very powerful, and spells like that should be very limited; typically they only last for 1 round.

I'm pretty sure the comments on spell research recommend against reducing casting time of spells, as it cheapens Quicken Spell. This sounds a lot more like a Shield spell cast as the companion spell to a contingency spell. That gets only the Shield bonus (not that INT modifier), restricts the target to the caster, requires specific stated conditions which activate the spell (eg. you don't choose which attack activates it) and chews up a 6th level and a 1st level spell. Of course, Contingency gives you a lot more choices as to the companion spell selected.

Bottom line: Why would anyone ever learn Shield if this spell were an option? The answer is that no one would, so this spell is not an appropriate L1 spell.

 

[ren1999]

I wish I had read up on Pathfinder spells earlier.

For example, Lightning Bolt does 8d6 damage at 8th level!

 

[paradox42]

Yes. Monster hit points are also higher in PF than in 4E, and player character damage scales much the same way. Characters in PF do many times more damage than 4E characters of the same level, in general (though there are occasional exceptions, mostly at the low end like 1st-3rd).

Also, PF mostly assumes the game ends by 20th level; 21st doesn't really "exist" (though there technically are rules in the GM's section- pages 406-407 specifically- which let you take characters above 20th).