Trying to Lessen the Level of Magic in 5e

[Hussar]

This has been my latest bugaboo. I'm trying to reduce the level of magic in 5e to create a less "fantastic" D&D world. Primarily, this is because I'm going to be running a Primeval Thule campaign, but, also, because it's something I think is somewhat lacking from 5e D&D.

Now, by low(ish) magic, I suppose I should define my terms. In my opinion, a campaign can be called low magic if magic is not used in the majority of encounters and if the magic that is used is typically non-special effects type magic. So, something like Cure Light Wounds isn't a major effect, mostly because it's not something that would require a high special effects budget to produce in a movie. Fireball, OTOH, is a big, flash special effect that would make Michael Bay happy. While a ranger dropping an Ensnaring Strike is flavoured as pretty high magic (hit something and vines spread out from the hit and ensnare the creature) it could easily be toned down to a sort of knock down strike that keeps the baddy off balance for a while until the spell wears off. It doesn't have to be big and flashy. It would be hard to make a fireball or turning something into a newt into something that wasn't big and flashy.

The nice thing about 5e is that magical bonuses aren't built in. Stripping out most magic items doesn't really hurt the party in terms of party effectiveness.

I propose the following changes:

1. No full casters. This should be pretty obvious, but, in a campaign with full casters, and casters with at-wills, every single encounter will feature multiple spells, and quite possibly multiple spells per round. Yeah, this is a no-go right off the start. So, no Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers, Warlocks or Wizards. At least no-PC versions anyway.

2. HP are a bigger issue here. So, something has to be done to make the party durable enough without needing spells to keep them on their feet. With that in mind, I propose the following:

a) A character may make a DC 10 Medicine check to grant advantage on any HD spent. For every 5 the character beats this check by, gain +1 HP. So, a PC that rolls a 21 on his medicine check grants another PC Advantage on HD spent and +2 on the die.
b) A character may make a DC 10 Persuasion or Intimidate Check as an action, to allow an ally to spend 1 HD as a reaction. The ally must be able to see and hear the character making the check.
c) A character can make a DC 14 Medicine check during a rest, to allow an ally to spend a HD. That ally gains no HP. Instead, a second ally gains the HP that the first ally would have gained. Note, this can be combined with the DC 10 Medicine check to grant advantage. (Two separate checks are made). Note, doing this during a rest means that the character making the check is ministering to the wounded and is not resting.
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Those, combined with the Healer Feat should work to keep the group on their feet and in the fray for adventuring days. Note, the trick here will be that since HD are only regained at 1/2 speed, the group will lack a bit of depth. But, since you can transfer HD from one PC to another, it should balance out fairly well.

3. Magic items. Again, obviously the number of magic items will need to be reduced. I'd advise simply 1/2 rates for random generation. And, when rolling magic items, or selecting, favour consumables over permanent items. Perhaps roll twice, choosing consumables first after the roll.

4. Monster selection. Care has to be taken here with monsters. Monsters with resistance become much stronger under this system, so, Xp needs to be adjusted accordingly. Additionally, since the PC's lack status effect removing spells, to any large degree anyway, creatures that have strong effects need to be closely watched.

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So, there it is. First draft. I'll be revisiting this soon after further cogitation and hopefully some feedback.

 

[Hussar]

Was kinda hoping for a bit of feedback. Would this accomplish what I'm trying to do?

 

[Psikerlord#]

I agree that you can strip out magic items with no problems, really.

The only thing might be healing potions - which I think you can refluff as herbal mixtures or whatever that restore HP instead of magical.

I think for PT, I quite like a Warlock only full caster, and removing the rest, as opposed to all of them. The Warlock only gets 2 spells/short rest for the first half of its career, so not too much spam there. I would also increase ritual casting time to d4 hours to reduce spam further.

I think removing flashy spells is easy - just take them off the list, or reflavour them to be a non-flashy substitute. Eg instead of fireball, there is deathball, which is a fleeting black mist that sucks hp away instead of a massive explosion!

I agree monster selection will be critical to keep the low magic vibe. PT seems to have that covered well.

As for restoring HP via skill checks etc.... I think you could achieve 2(b) easier with herbal healing poultices etc, instead of magic healing potions. I like 2(a) a lot - that is a great use of Medicine which could be in any 5e game. I am not so sure about 2(c) - is that a transferring of HD between PCs? If so, I feel that is more of a magical than mundane effect.

Additionally I think throwing a warlord class with mundane healing into the mix would also work brilliantly in PT. Fingers crossed we see one in Players Companion

 

[Hussar]

Yes, I wasn't sure about the HD transference either. I'm not married to the concept. It would greatly increase the depth of resources for the party though. It's pretty gamist but it does the trick nicely. That archer character hanging back gets to contribute to the general health of the party instead of all the hp coming out of a few characters.

Flavour it as spiritual healing might work if you need an in game explanation. I'm of a mind to just lampshade it and not think about it too much.

 

[Quartz]

Now, by low(ish) magic, I suppose I should define my terms. In my opinion, a campaign can be called low magic if magic is not used in the majority of encounters and if the magic that is used is typically non-special effects type magic. So, something like Cure Light Wounds isn't a major effect, mostly because it's not something that would require a high special effects budget to produce in a movie. Fireball, OTOH, is a big, flash special effect that would make Michael Bay happy.

Why not expand on this further? Players can have full caster PCs but flashy spells simply aren't allowed. Also, since there aren't any flashy spells, perhaps this means that the elemental planes are somehow blocked? Or, and this ties in with the primeval aspect of your campaign, spellcasters have yet to learn how to tap them. You could also allow full casters by saying there are as yet no spells over level X (except perhaps a very few). This would prevent PCs using spells of those levels, but enable them up use the spell slots to cast lower level spells.

 

[Hussar]

Why not expand on this further? Players can have full caster PCs but flashy spells simply aren't allowed. Also, since there aren't any flashy spells, perhaps this means that the elemental planes are somehow blocked? Or, and this ties in with the primeval aspect of your campaign, spellcasters have yet to learn how to tap them. You could also allow full casters by saying there are as yet no spells over level X (except perhaps a very few). This would prevent PCs using spells of those levels, but enable them up use the spell slots to cast lower level spells.

Because I don't want full casters?

As soon as you put a full caster on the table, every single round of every single encounter will feature spells being cast. Whether it's just cantrips or full spells, it will be constant.

This is very much outside of what I want for a low magic game. I have no interest in the PC's dropping polymorphs or negating travel challenges with Goodberry and Create Water and Teleport. I want things like disease to be an actual challenge, not just a speed bump for any group with a 3rd level caster. Sword and Sorcery stories do not feature protagonist casters, generally. Outside of Moorcock and maybe the Thieves World books, you rarely see protagonists dropping the level of magic that any party, even low level ones, that have a full caster can drop. If someone dies, I want that to be an epic journey if you want to bring him back. If you get lost in the jungle, I want there to be a real danger of disease and starvation. Heck, I want getting lost to be a real danger.

What I don't want is the 4th level druid dropping shape changes every other encounter and then blasting away with Produce Flame on the odd numbered encounters.

So, no, no full casters. No one is going to banish dragons to pocket dimensions in this campaign (banishment spell). No one is going to befuddle a small army with a Hypnotic Spray spell. You want to face twenty Beastmen? Better bring about thirty friends with you.

That's what I mean by low magic.

 

[bedir than]

A fun trick is to make any caster a faux prestige class. Require X levels (where X is how much you want to limit magic) of another class and such. Let's use X=10. That would mean that an 11th level character is only a 1st level cleric.

I made all divine casters use rituals only and all arcane casters that are permitted (sorcerer and bard) use the wild magic table. I also removed unlimited cantrips (replacing it with 1+character level+casting modifier). Adding those limits mean that magic isn't dominating encounters.

Your method works too. It may be harder to get player buy-in, but if you do they can and should enjoy it. A less spell casty DnD can still be lots of fun.

 

[Hussar]

Yeah. Fortunately my players seem to be willing to roll with it.

Although the magic initiate get might need some work.

 

[Li Shenron]

Now, by low(ish) magic, I suppose I should define my terms. In my opinion, a campaign can be called low magic if magic is not used in the majority of encounters and if the magic that is used is typically non-special effects type magic.

...

1. No full casters.

A bit drastic decision, but it will certainly achieve by itself most of what you're looking for.

2. HP are a bigger issue here.

...

I would go a lot simpler and just:

1) Heal full HD worth of HP on a short rest, instead of rolling
2) Get back all HD on a long rest, instead of half

In addition, consider spacing encounters a little bit more than usual, to give more time for resting.

3. Magic items. Again, obviously the number of magic items will need to be reduced. I'd advise simply 1/2 rates for random generation. And, when rolling magic items, or selecting, favour consumables over permanent items. Perhaps roll twice, choosing consumables first after the roll.

Sounds totally ok.

Personally I also favor less magic items, but more powerful, and progressive: for example, instead of 3 items with 1 property each, I'd have 1 item with 3 properties, but at the beginning only the 1st is there, then after some time it develops (or you discover) the 2nd, then the 3rd... But this may not affect the low-magic feel in the way you want, it makes magic items more rare but also more special.

4. Monster selection. Care has to be taken here with monsters. Monsters with resistance become much stronger under this system, so, Xp needs to be adjusted accordingly. Additionally, since the PC's lack status effect removing spells, to any large degree anyway, creatures that have strong effects need to be closely watched.

Certainly. You can also always focus on humanoid monsters, beasts and monstrosities.

 

[Vicaring]

I am myself working on a low-magic setting, slowly. I'm introducing new homebrew/alt-rule aspects to the game fairly regularly, and my players seem to be keeping up with my tinkering alright.

One thing that you might do, that I am going to be introducing at Wednesday night's session, is the "Healing Surges" rule from the DMG. On a bonus action, a player can spend up to half his HD + constitution per HD rolled to regain hit points.

That would go quite some way towards making up for the lack of magical healing, methinks.

Of course, I'm also going to be trying the 8-hour short rests and 7-day long rests variant, in order to try to get those resource-management classes to actually manage their damned resources.