Tumble - Isn't it broken?

[Ron]

Is it just me or do you agree that the Tumble skill is ill thought. The DC to tumble 20 feet among enemies is just 25, where picking a good lock is 30! Come one, even good locks made with medieval technology can't be that hard to pick. The problem is that it is not hard to a good mid-level rogue to tumble in-between a party of 20th level characters and leave unharmed. This would be as hard as tumbling among a party of first-level wizards.

I was thinking about some quick and dirty fix such as ruling that Combat Reflexes would negate Tumble. Comments?

 

[hong]

Of the six million fixes to Tumble that have been proposed, the following three come to mind:

- S&S uses an opposed roll between the tumbler's Tumble check and any opponent's Reflex save. Tumbling through an opponent's space (as opposed to around it) gives the opponent a +10 bonus to their save.

- S&F requires an opposed Tumble skill check in addition to beating the fixed DC.

- Monte has a house rule that uses an opposed roll between the Tumble check and a roll to hit. Tumbling through an opponent's space gives a +10 bonus to the opponent's attack roll.

 

[SnowDog]

House rules

Try the house rules forum.

Our group uses the following, which I blatantly stole from somewhere, I forget where (EDIT: Based on above post, I would guess Song and Silence).

When you tumble through a threatened square, the person threatening that square can make a reflex save to still get an AoO on you. The DC on the reflex save is equal to the result of your tumble check.

When you tumble through a square someone is standing in, the person can make a reflex save to get an AoO on you. The DC on the reflex save is equal to the result of your tumbling check MINUS 10.

It's worked well for us, but we've only played up until level 6 or so.

 

[Xahn'Tyr]

A "fix" that I would like to see is that you have to stop your movement once someone takes a swing at you. Just doesn't seem right that a rouge can move right through the bad guys regardless of their Tumble roll.

 

[shilsen]

A "fix" that I would like to see is that you have to stop your movement once someone takes a swing at you. Just doesn't seem right that a rouge can move right through the bad guys regardless of their Tumble roll.

I've got one close to it. I use the reflex save (+10 bonus if the tumbling character is passing through your square) vs. tumble check rule. If the attack hits, you can't tumble through the square, and stop outside it.

 

[Sodalis]

it doesnt bother me that tumble though broken, makes sense for some char like a monk, rogue, or finesse fighter. But when a sorc and cleric starts to do it, it is just bothersome...

can you imagine a FP cleric with a dex of 14 who wants to go behind an opp, and instead of taking the automatic AoO from the hit, decides to roll to get around the guy, sure you have a -4 to tumble checks and a +1 for dex, making it a total of -3... so you need an 18 on your tumble check to maneuver-

well, you have 1/7 chance of doing it, better than a auto aoo. And if you haev mobility- you AC is more obscene- something like 45...

tumble should be exclusive and should not be done untrained... it just doesnt make sense for some char to do it...

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

tumble should be exclusive and should not be done untrained... it just doesnt make sense for some char to do it...

You can't Tumble untrained. (Existing rule.)


Wulf

 

[Sodalis]

hmmmmm- maybe i should reread my stuff....



that puts a kink into a lot of the things my players do- damnit- I knew the rules books were there for a reason....

 

[Tony Vargas]

The variant I use for Tumble is that it doesn't actually negate AoOs at all. Instead, when the tumbler provokes an AoO by Tumbling through a threatened area, he makes a Tumble check, which replaces his AC (assuming he rolls higher than his AC) for that AoO.

Though this makes Tumbling through threatened areas less certain, it can also make the enemy waste his AoO, if he decides to take it. Thus, for instance, a Monk tumbling into melee with a giant might manage a high enough Tumble roll that the giant misses it's AoO, but, unlike a regular Tumble attempt, the AoO is used up and non-tumbling party members can close safely... wheras, normally, the Monk would tumble in and the giant would still have his AoO to use on the next guy to try to close.

 

[Bobbystopholes]

TV,

I really like that method. That is very interesting!