Tumbling through threat ranges...roll before or after?

[Chronosome]

Hey, all.

Okay...we're talking about tumbling here. Specifically, the
DC 15 option to tumble through opponents' threat ranges
without provoking attacks of opportunity. My question is:

Do you roll before or after the move is made? If before,
and you fail your check, can you opt not to move at all?
Or move in another direction?

Thanks in advance, guys.

 

[Fast Learner]

You effectively roll after. It's not a check to see whether or not you're capable of tumbling past without them getting a chance to hit you: it's a roll to determine whether or not you do it successfully.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Right. Basically, you can't know how well you tumbled, until after you've tumbled. If you tumbled well, the opponent won't have gotten a chance to whack you. If you tumbled poorly, he will.

You certainly can't start to tumble, roll badly, and say, "whoops, I think that if I tumble past that guy, I won't do very well, so I'll move a different way instead."

You don't know until you try.

 

[Xahn'Tyr]

If you try to tumble past a horde of orcs such that every 5 ft step would cause an AoO, do you make the rogue go through his entire move (and take ALL the AoOs)? Or does he stop when the first AoO is done against him?

I'm thinking that since the rogue gets to do the whole move even if he fails, that he has to take the whole move even if he fails. It's always annoyed me that there is simply NO way to stop someone from getting past you; at best you get to take a swing at them.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

If you try to tumble past a horde of orcs such that every 5 ft step would cause an AoO, do you make the rogue go through his entire move (and take ALL the AoOs)? Or does he stop when the first AoO is done against him?

I'm thinking that since the rogue gets to do the whole move even if he fails, that he has to take the whole move even if he fails. It's always annoyed me that there is simply NO way to stop someone from getting past you; at best you get to take a swing at them.

First of all, a rogue can only tumble 20' in any given move. That's not really enough distance to tumble past a whole horde of orcs unless he's tumbling in a straight line, through four spaces all occupied by orcs, with orcs on either side. Most of the time, he'll be tumbling past two or three foes at once, tops.

Now if a rogue wanted to try and stop between foes (say if he was low on hit points and wanted to "abort mission" if the first orc managed to whack him good,) I'd let him, but I'd force him to make a separate tumble check for each "leg" of his journey. Basically, he'd designate his first move (past foe #1,) and roll a tumble check. If it succeeded, he could designate his next move and roll a new check for the next orc. This is in-line with a Sage ruling that you can break up the 20' tumble distance, but must roll separately for each stretch of tumbling.

As for stopping someone from passing you, what you want is the Psionic Feat Stand Still. It gives you an AoO when someone tries to enter your threatened area, and if you hit them for damage, it prevents them from moving forward at all. This still wouldn't prevent a rogue with a successful tumble check from moving past you, but it would prevent a rogue from moving past you on a failed check.

 

[Shallown]

I usually have the tumbling character indicate there planned course and they make a single roll. Since I use a variant tumbling rule (DC is 10 + Bab of person threatening and 20+ bab for moving through there space) it is possible to pass for one person's threatend space and not anothers. In any case I give the player the option to stop their movement but they cannot change course, so to speak. They may wish to stop to avoid further attacks of opportunity.

 

[Gromm]

If you try to tumble past a horde of orcs such that every 5 ft step would cause an AoO, do you make the rogue go through his entire move (and take ALL the AoOs)? Or does he stop when the first AoO is done against him?

I'm thinking that since the rogue gets to do the whole move even if he fails, that he has to take the whole move even if he fails. It's always annoyed me that there is simply NO way to stop someone from getting past you; at best you get to take a swing at them.

You would be correct. He would be forced t otake the whole move (and all the AoOs). Basically hes declared his move and is trying to tumble to avoid the AoOs hes going to get. If this isnt possible (like tumbling through an enemy square), he ends up in the last square he could have reached.

 

[Crothian]

Ya, once the action is declared and started, there is no turning back.

How many people use the tumble vers attack roll method in S&S? We haven't given it a try, so I'm not sure what it does for the game.

 

[KarinsDad]

Ya, once the action is declared and started, there is no turning back.

How many people use the tumble vers attack roll method in S&S? We haven't given it a try, so I'm not sure what it does for the game.

I use the Reflex Save variant out of S&S. I have found it to work well. I also use it for Casting Defensively (which in reality, should be the same as Tumble).