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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Shemeska" data-source="post: 1995547" data-attributes="member: 11697">The Savoys post date the Turin shroudWell documented:The cloth we now call the Shroud of Turin first appears in the hands of a french noble by the name of Geoffrey de Charny in 1349. In 1355 he petitioned the Pope to construct a church in Lirey to honor the Holy Trinity. At this chapel the Shroud was first exhibited in public, though how long the Shroud had been in his hands is semi-speculative.The Shroud remains in the hands of the de Charney family for approx. 100 years before it passes into the hands of the Savoy family. Ditch the Leonardo de Vinci theories guys... the modern shroud predates him and the Savoys by about 100 years. Semi-speculative:Going back to the sacking of Constantinople during the Crusades there was a relic in that city housed in the Pharos chapel known as the Edessa cloth (also referred to later as the Mandylion). Records from the period give the cloth a similar appearance to that later known as the Shroud of Turin, and the relic, along with many of the valuables in the chapel and the Bucholean Palace was plundered by the french knights who took part in the seige and subsequent looting. There is suggestive evidence that the Edessa cloth resurfaced in Athens three years later in the hands of Otto de la Roche, an associate of the Marquis Boniface de Montferrat who organized the looting by the french.Then we have a gap from about 1204 to the 1350s in which there is no mention of either the Edessa cloth or the Shroud of Turin. It is possible that they are both the same relic.Going back to Geoffry de Charney, he has the same name as another french knight who was burned at the stake in 1307 for heresy as a member of the Templars. 50 years or so later, a member of his family displays the shroud in public. The Edessa cloth may have passed from Otto de la Roche through various members of the French nobility and into the hands of the Templar, though the evidence is implied and speculative.The Shroud after the 1350's is well documented, and the Edessa cloth before the fall of Constantinople is itself well documented (church records, papal letters, etc) since it first appears in extant records since around 544. The Edessa cloth was folded and was said to contain an image of Christ's face, and many have assumed then that it and the Turin cloth are different relics since the Turin cloth holds a full body image. However records from 944, written by Gregory Referendarius, the archdeacon of Hagia Sophia in constantinople, refer to the Edessa cloth being folded multiple times to show only the face, but that the full unfolded cloth bore the faint image of a crucified man, presumably that of Christ. It may be inferred from evidence of such folds on the Turin shroud that it and the Edessa cloth are the same artifact.</blockquote>

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