Turning D&D into WoW?

[MerricB]

Tail-slap knockback is part of the DDM minis game against the Gargantuan Black Dragon, btw.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I guess if they want to please the anti-WoW people though, they are going to have to go out of their way to keep anything WoW uses out of D&D, no matter how good it is. I'll help them out:

Well, not everything. I would just appreciate if WotC didn't copy/paste and entire attack sequence from a video game dragon and insert it into their new game mechanics for dragons.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Okay. The 4E dragon's attack routine goes like this:

"Inferno" in 25 foot radius
Two claw attacks
A tail slap which knocks the target back
A single-target breath attack which does continuous damage
Fly to a different position on the ground

Onyxia has the following attacks (no indication of what order they're used in):

Breath that hits all targets in front of the dragon
"Knock away" attack
Wing buffet
Cleave
Tail slap which knocks the target back
Flying and hovering in the air
Single-target breath attack with no continuous damage
Whelp spawns
AoE Fear

Can someone complaining about similarities please point them out to me? I see exactly one - the tail slap. Other than that, where are they?

There are at least 3 in there, I've pointed them out in a post above. FWIW, I am not suggesting they are being done in the same order (incase you feel like arguing that point). Just that, the new 4E dragon is doing something new that wasn't previously done with 3E dragons (and 3E mechanics) and they seem to mimic things that Onyxia can do, almost to a tee... just a coincidence is all

 

[Greatwyrm]

Since D&D was the first rpg and WoW is an rpg (not interested in debating that), they will always be similar in some way.

Honestly, I don't care who they steal what from. If D&D ends up being a faster, better, and more fun game in the process, I'm happy.

 

[Grog]

So now dragons apparently have the ability to spew a ball of fire which can ignite a person on fire. Again, cool new ability for 4E dragons, but look here again, the same WoW dragon has the same ability called Engulfing Flames. Yet another "coincidence", right?

There's no mention of the WoW attack doing continuous damage, which the D&D attack does, and there's no mention of the D&D attack having an area of effect, which the WoW attack does. They seem pretty different to me.

Then it attacks BOTH the Cleric and the Fighter with it's two claws as a Standard Action. In 3E this would be a Full Round Action, but since we don't know the 4E rules, looks like they allowed some special Standard Action attack to make 2 claw attacks on (at least) 2 opponents (the Cleric and Fighter) at the same time. Ok, another cool addition to 4E dragons, something that wasn't in 3E. Well, look here at the WoW dragon. It has an ability called Cleave (not the same as D&D mind you). What does it do? It hits all enemies in front of it with with a claw attack. Yet another coincidence? We're up to 3 now...

The D&D dragon hits two enemies with two claw attacks (likely one claw attack at each target). The WoW dragon hits everyone in front of it with a single claw attack. Again, I'm not seeing the similarity.

What does the dragon do at the end of his attack sequence? He flies away out of reach (it happened to have a Move Action left, even though it took 2 standard actions and 2 free actions, all of which were attacks... c-c-c-combo!). So the dragon flies away, again, nothing new. The WoW dragon happens to do the same.

The D&D dragon flies to another location on the ground. The WoW dragon flies upward and hovers in the air. Again, this is different. And since when does WoW have the patent on dragons being able to fly??

Sorry, but like I said, except for the tail slap, these seem to be completely different fights.

 

[RigaMortus2]

There's no mention of the WoW attack doing continuous damage, which the D&D attack does, and there's no mention of the D&D attack having an area of effect, which the WoW attack does. They seem pretty different to me.

Ok, fair enough, I am not personally familiar with Onyxia to argue this point. I assumed she might have a DoT attack...

The D&D dragon hits two enemies with two claw attacks (likely one claw attack at each target). The WoW dragon hits everyone in front of it with a single claw attack. Again, I'm not seeing the similarity.

We don't know all the specifics obviously (perhaps the D&D dragon does the same, but one the Cleric and Fighter were right in front of it?), but I will ask you this... If there are two people (a Cleric and a Fighter) standing in front of Onyxia, and she does her Cleave attack hitting everyone in front of her, who will she hit? Let''s not split hairs here...

The D&D dragon flies to another location on the ground. The WoW dragon flies upward and hovers in the air. Again, this is different. And since when does WoW have the patent on dragons being able to fly??

I never said they did. This wasn't really a big point I was trying to make at all, but thanks for bringing it up, I guess. The end result being the same in either case, I unleash all my attacks and fly out of range, you can't hit me. I agree, flying dragons are nothing special, and comparing D&D and WoW over flying dragons is a little silly. But it is part of the attack routine, so that is why I added it.

Sorry, but like I said, except for the tail slap, these seem to be completely different fights.

Well, I have no control over what you choose to read or ignore. What can I tell you?

 

[Grog]

We don't know all the specifics obviously (perhaps the D&D dragon does the same, but one the Cleric and Fighter were right in front of it?), but I will ask you this... If there are two people (a Cleric and a Fighter) standing in front of Onyxia, and she does her Cleave attack hitting everyone in front of her, who will she hit? Let''s not split hairs here...

Huh? It's a completely different mechanic. Onyxia hits everyone in front of her, and the D&D dragon doesn't. If there are ten people standing in front of the D&D dragon, it can still only hit two of them with its claws.

 

[Nifft]

The truth is, though, I'm not really all that wise. I just talk a lot, so I sometimes make good points by the law of averages.

That would make Crothian a paragon of wisdom, right?

Is there a version of augury which uses his posts as a component? (Or maybe a drinking game?)

Cheers, -- N

 

[GSHamster]

WoW's dragons have abilities involving breathing fire, biting, swiping people with claws, tail slaps, and flying.

D&D's dragons have abilities involving breathing fire, biting, swiping people with claws, tail slaps, and flying.

That seems reasonable to me. The thing about Onyxia is that she is designed as the archetypical dragon encounter. All the things she does are things that you expect a dragon to do. So naturally any description of a D&D dragon fight is going to resemble the Onyxia fight.

Now, if WotC published a dragon fight which looked like the other WoW dragon fights, such as Nefarian or--god forbid--Vaelastraz the Corrupt, then you'd have a much stronger argument.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Does that Draconomicon feat Clinging Breath count as a D&D first?