Turning, Rebuking, and Commanding Animals and Plants

[candidus_cogitens]

Dingleberry's question made me think of another issue: Evil clerics can command a single undead creature that has more HD than he has levels--but that would be the only undead creature he can command, and it requires complete concentration. So . . .

1) Can druids with Animal Control do that too?
2) How the heck can a cleric do that anyway, considering that commanding is supposed to be parallel to destroying, and you cannot destroy a creature that has HD of more than HALF your level? (Does anyone else see a problem here?)

 

[candidus_cogitens]

I started a new thread to discuss this question about commanding creatures with higher HD:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33733

 

[nharwell]

Animal Control says that "Animals you command through this ability count against the HD limit of animals you can befriend through animal friendship." Since most Druids will have their maximum HD of animal companions. they would be unable to even use this feat!

Also, note that Animal Friendship now limits the hit dice of a druid's animal companion(s) to his own. So it would be impossible for a Druid to command animal(s) with HD greater than his own, regardless of how you interpret an evil cleric's ability to command more powerful undead.

To "fix" these feats so that I'd actually use them in my game, I'd first combine Animal Defiance and Animal Control into one feat. Then, I'd drop the limitation that combines animals controlled through this power with those from animal friendship. Then it might be useful....

 

[mypetrock]

Plant feats

These feats are indeed situational. In my campaign I came up with a scenario where the party is battling against a large colony of plants - fungus, trees, vines, bushes, ... you name it. The NPC fungus druids that can assist the party have these feats because that's what their world is like. Not necessarily globally useful, but not every screw needs a hammer.

mypetrock

 

[candidus_cogitens]

Since most Druids will have their maximum HD of animal companions. they would be unable to even use this feat!

Also, note that Animal Friendship now limits the hit dice of a druid's animal companion(s) to his own. So it would be impossible for a Druid to command animal(s) with HD greater than his own, regardless of how you interpret an evil cleric's ability to command more powerful undead.

On the contrary, most druids never have their maximum HD of animal companions. The maximum HD of animal companions for any druid is TWICE his level. It's just that he can only keep half his maximum when he goes adventuring. And he can't have a SINGLE companion that has more HD than his level.

So, a fourth level druid could have a four HD animal companion, as well as 4 HD worth of commanded creatures.

 

[nharwell]

<cut>

So, a fourth level druid could have a four HD animal companion, as well as 4 HD worth of commanded creatures.

Only if he is a "non-adventuring druid." As you just stated, a 4th-level druid PC would be limited to 4HD and thus unable to command animals if he already had 4 HD of animal companions...

 

[candidus_cogitens]

Only if he is a "non-adventuring druid." As you just stated, a 4th-level druid PC would be limited to 4HD and thus unable to command animals if he already had 4 HD of animal companions...

No. The commanded creatures count against your "maximum", which would be 8 HD. The 4 HD of commanded animals are not animal companions, technically. The druid would not have to give them attention and care while adventuring, as he would a true animal companion. The only sense in which they have anything to do with animal companionship is that they count against the "maximum", which is twice the druid's level.

 

[nharwell]

Interesting -- that's not the way I read it, however. Perhaps I should send a question to the Sage for clarification....

 

[Dingleberry]

Forgive the hijack, but this thread made me wonder: do such "turn _____ as clerics turn undead" abilities (Animal/Plant Defiance, domain powers) also apply the "if a combatant has twice as many levels (or more) as the undead have Hit Dice, the combatant destroys any that the combatant would normally turn" mechanic?

In case anyone's curious, I finally looked this up: the cleric domain abilities all say "turn or destroy", but the Defiance feats from MotW say "turn (but not destroy)".

 

[candidus_cogitens]

Interesting -- that's not the way I read it, however. Perhaps I should send a question to the Sage for clarification....

Yeah, please ask him! And be sure to tell me if he answers you. I'd really like to know.