Twist my Plot. Please!

[DragonShadow]

While everybody is focusing on the whole "two sides" deal, you're forgeting that not every plane of existance is aligned. Who is to say then that there can't be neutral echoes? Essentially, break it down like this:

Evil Echoes are striving to become as powerful as they can, by slaying the other echoes.
Good Echoes are striving for the greater good, and often war against the Evil Echoes to prevent them in their plans.
Neutral Echoes, being true to the neutral standpoint, can act as mercenaries for either the good or evil echoes, as long as there's something in it for them in the deal.

If the Prime Material body dies before any one echo is strong enough to take its place upon the PM Plane, all the echoes fade away after a certain amount of time (essentially making them all ghost remainders of the dead person).

An Echo need not kill -every- other echo to be strong enough to take the place of the Prime body though, that's the factor that makes it a blatant ripoff of Highlander or The One. Also, echoes should be able to increase their strength and ability to take over on the Material Plane by other means (essentially leveling them up).

Echoes should truly be able to be slain while off of their own plane of existance, like any other Outsider, and as they are each an "echo" of the prime body, even if they are killed on their own plane, there should be a new one born upon that plane as long as there is a prime body left.

Basically, unless the Shadow Echo is killed while on the Plane of Shadow, he isn't dead. Even killing the SE on the Plane of Shadow should result in at least a % chance of another one coming into existance as long as the original is still living.



It makes for an interesting, if not long and overwhelming, planar quest. It's somewhat daunting unless you put a cap on it, but since you pretty much asked for that cap to be removed, you've got yourself one hell of a task. Also what's interesting is that if there are echoes on each and every plane, it would stand to reason that there are echoes in the energy aligned planes (fire, air, etc.). That always presents a problem for PC's due to the constant presence of a given element that they likely won't be able to resist or counter.

It's all up to you though, really.

-My two cents-

 

[Delemental]

Echoing Iceifur's sentiment, give them a cliche they don't expect.

Ever see that original Star Trek episode where Kirk gets split into his good and bad halves due to a transporter accident? The 'bad Kirk' runs around doing all sorts of self-serving things, but lacks self-control, while the 'good Kirk' is very indecisive, as he lacks the ruthless edge of his evil side to make hard decisions.

Perhaps the whole point of the campaign isn't "There can be only one!" but "There must be them all!" Perhaps the 'evil' echoes are actively pursuing killing the other echoes out of a belief that they become stronger, or that they will replace the prime self, or whatever. The 'good' echoes are trying to eliminate only the evil ones, believing that all evil can be purged from the universe if they are successful. But in reality, when one echo dies the entire system becomes weaker, and you lose that entire aspect of your self. At first the loss is subtle; perhaps after the death of an evil-echo representing lust, a character finds that he no longer has any sexual urges at all. After losing gluttony, the character finds that all food tastes bland and unappealing. After losing the good echo representing mercy, the character just wants to kill the prisoners and have done with it. But as time goes on, the losses could end up being more significant; personality changes that impact ability to function as an adventurer such as loss of all aggressive instincts or loss of desire for material objects. The losses could even start to impact the character's ability scores, class abilities, etc. Then the whole point of the campaign becomes not only trying to restore any lost echoes (even the evil ones) but figuring out a way to keep the echoes from crossing the boundaries of planes so they can't get at each other.

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

Some people just miss the whole concept of an excellent plot twist...

A truly awesome plot twist doesn't just modify the plot line in some minor to moderate way, nor just spin it off into an unexpected direction (though those are good ones, they are not awesome)

A truly awesome plot twist is when the players suddenly realize that the majority of what they thought they knew based off of facts they've seen/gained knowledge of, is false and that the actual plot line is far deeper.

Here's what I would do based off the sketchy info you've provided:

rewrite some basic concepts and add in conflict of a much higher order. These 'echoes' or 'ripple' clones exist alright, but they are whole people. They have been taught this mythos you've cited by the design of a VIP (a deity/arch-lich, whatever you want) so that they romp through the planes killing off copies of themselves to gain power for whatever reason you pick up from your own notes or others above.

However, secretly these killings are removing believers of certain deities (singular or plural) from the planes, thus weakening the deity(ies), for the purposes of the VIP.

For example, it could be an arch-lich seeking ascension into the full pantheon. He's got more than a couple of plots going - cultists spreading his religion there, military forces conquering kingdoms in his name over there, etc. - one of which is to weaken a certain target god he wants to replace. He creates a mythos, puts hints and clues to it in all the right spots, and the evil ripple clones start killing off the prime plane clones, because they believe the story. Perhaps he is the one actually providing the 'quickening' effect whenever the ripplies kill a prime. Whatever, the point being is, he gains a believer and the target god loses one.

Don't let the party know they've guessed the plot line - but also don't let 'em know they haven't. Half the fun in this kind of a plot twist is letting 'em bark down the wrong trail for a while.

Heck, for sheer confusion style fun, the moment they start to figure out this background plot twist, toss in some quasi-real highlander action for them to observe that has nothing to do with the real plot line... And wait for their jaws to drop when they realize it

 

[rushlight]

You could really throw them by taking a more "sci-fi" twist...

What if the "good" and "evil" versions of a person are actually reflections from dual alternate realities - each battling the other on the middle ground. I would use the Plane of Shadows (from the Manual of the Planes if you have it) as the origin of the evil reflection, and an opposite plane, the Plane of Light as the origin of the good reflections. Both of these planes are coexistant with the Material Plane, as is the Etheral Plane. If you have MoTP, I would also add the traits Good-dominant and Evil-dominant to their respective planes.

The battle began long ago, when a mage discovered that the Material Plane is "anchored" by specific people (who generally are powerful, or will become powerful) who may never realize their significance to their home plane. If those anchors were all killed, then the Material Plane would merge with the coexistant plane that was most infused with the power of the anchors. In order to do this, the anchors must be killed at a rate faster than they are reborn (there are 17,523 born each year - hey, the universe has it's own inscrutable rules!). Also, a ritual must take place at the death of an anchor to send his or her's soul energy to the plane desired. I would also think that being absorbed in such a way renders the soul unavailable for any sort of resurrection...

The Plane of Shadows struck first (since they despised their lot), but the Plane of Light quickly adapted. They knew that if the Matieral Plane merged with the Plane of Shadows then the Plane of Light would instantly cease to be. Also, denizens of each plane dies instantly if it ever goes to the opposite plane - thus the battlefield becomes the Material Plane.

In order for each side to exist on the Material Plane, they must first be aware of an anchor who is on the Material Plane. Through the use of spells (perhaps a Locate Anchor spell!) or magical items based on that, they locate one, and with a seperate spell (maybe Material Manifest?) they are able to transport themselves to the Material Plane - through the anchor. Upon arrival however, their physical form is always identical to the anchor, with occational minor differences. Only one being from each Plane can manifest through a single anchor at a time (or not, if you've already had many versions of one guy running around!). A manifested being can stay as long as it likes, but if the anchor dies, then those beings manifested through it are returned to their own plane after a week and a day.

Thus the battle has raged for millennia, with one side or the other temporarily gaining the upper hand. Perhaps the times of strife and pain on the Material Plane are those times in which the Plane of Shadows is winning (ie, there's a small number of anchors). Also note that this is a battle that will go on forever unless something dramatic can be done. This is because the Plane of Light isn't activly killing anchors to bring the Material Plane closer to themselves - since they are good and all. Perhaps the players can find some way end this eternal battle, or perhaps it's just the way things are - good locked in eternal battle with evil so that the status quo can be maintained...

Anyway, I enjoyed the opportunity to play with your ideas some! I hope mine have been helpful or inspired you in some way! Thanks!

 

[Wraith Form]

A truly awesome plot twist is when the players suddenly realize that the majority of what they thought they knew based off of facts they've seen/gained knowledge of, is false and that the actual plot line is far deeper.

Here's what I would do based off the sketchy info you've provided:

SNIP... And wait for their jaws to drop when they realize it

Hafta admit, I'm kinda fond of this. "There can be only One! .....Err, except the dessicated walking corpse over there that's pulling all the strings.... There can be only Two! ....Uh, wait, the lich isn't fully alive....okay, I have it...There can only be One and a Half!"

But then again, anything involving a sweaty, oily-chested William Shatner with his rugged, manly ripped shirt has a twisted appeal....

 

[blargney the second]

Seed: A black hole spontaneously creates pairs of matter and antimatter. When the particles collide, they create X-Rays.

Analog: A boulder creates ripples, but they're always paired. If you kill a ripple that is not your opposite, you gain power. However, if you kill your opposite, you cease to be.

-blarg

 

[WanderingMonster]

Wow! The ideas you guys came up with are great! I knew I could count on EN Worlders. I especially like the "killing little bits of yourself" idea, but I think there are more ideas I can work in with that.

This really takes an idea I was beginning to second guess and gives it new life for me. If anyone else has ideas, or simply wants to expand on others, keep 'em coming! Now, I'm off to print this page and go cherry picking!