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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 898223" data-attributes="member: 5834">ReThat is how we play it, it is very logical. The point Hypersmurf is missing is that both "flat-footed" and "denied dex bonus" are exactly the same thing using a different word, akin to a synonym. Thus, it follows logically that the same limitiations imposed upon a "flat-footed" person would be imposed upon a person "denied their dex bonus". The rules may not say one way or the other, but the effect is the exactly the same. It could well be argued that they should impose exactly the same limitations.It is not even close to the same. This is easily defeated thinking. Prone and non-proficient are entirely different situations. One is laying on the ground and one is not having the training to wield a weapon. You so often forget to think about what a rule means in the pseudo-real fantasy world of D&D.While feinting and "flat-footed" could both be argued as being caught off guard by another attacker. When you are "flat-footed", you are caught off guard by a faster attacker (Lost initiative). When you are feinted against, you are caught off guard by an attacker with a special skill.(Bluff Skill) In both cases, you are caught off guard.I see no reason, save a purely mechanical reason, that a person who is "denied their dex bonus" would get AOO's.</blockquote>