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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gorgoroth" data-source="post: 6042137" data-attributes="member: 6674889">...Why not keep it EXTREMELY simple:You have disadvantage with both attacks, but otherwise each attack is completely normally calculated. It means though, that you need 4 dice each round for a "twin strike". But, I think a more workable option is just, no disadvantage but a flat -2/-2 to hit with two finesse weapons or 1 normal + 1 light, and no ability mod bonus to damage on either one. DEFINITELY keep the magic bonuses both to hit and to damage on each one, plus perks. If you have a flame tongue short sword and an ice longsword, think about it...the various rules systems you guys have provided here do not allow magic iteams to do their thing in an elegant way. I should be able to freeze + burn you if I'm lucky enough to hit twice. In a flat math system, whatever penalty applied to each attack roll should be big enough to offset the statistical damage bonus. Just avoid the 4e mistake by adding tons of stackable flat damage bonuses and you're done.If a DM doesn't want a dual wielder to get too powerful, just don't give him too many magic items. Why is this even an issue? Dual wielders are one way that those extra magic weapons that otherwise wouldn't see any use DO get used, rather than stored in someone's backpack until it can be chucked off at a pawn shoppe back in town.two weapons = two attacks. This much is certain. If they keep the disadvantage on each roll, fine, but make up for it by making the max damage potential huger AND do not put any asinine restrictions such as you cannot remove the disadvantage. WHY add more special cases? You have disadvantage with each attack....but it should be cancellable by getting advantage.I would say make getting advantage hard enough and not super consistent so you can't get it every single bloody round, and that's a great way to balance it. I want a paladin with two holy weapons to absolutely KICK BUTT against undead. Chop suey.I did that once, using twin strike with my hybrid paladin + ranger and his double axe, when I popped Sacred Weapon utility and Snarling Wolf Stance...it was the one epic battle where we were all swarmed by an insane amount of skellies and I was dedding 'em so good. The party was like...whoah, you just opened a can of whoop asss on 'em. Good job. I couldn't do that every battle, but against these guys...it was rad. I waited, waited, waited till the right battle to pop my stuff and it paid off. I want DDN to have those moments where someone like that can shine. You have two maces of disruption? throw'em to the paladin this fight b/c he will kick butt.Dual wielding should provide between S&B and THF average damage, potentially more damage if both hits crit (and silly restrictions on no extra crits...just don't add any feats to increase crit range). I detested seeing so many kukri builds in PF. What a dumb looking weapon. Dual wielding should be statistically do-able at level 1, you trade off higher DPR for reliable DPR, and eventually with much training can get closer to THF dpr.Don't forget, fighters now get two FULL swings at level 6. These TWF current rules need to be balanced against that. And what happens when a fighter that dual wields turns 6? Three attacks? I want all the attacks to have the same to-hit penalty, the same calculations. Special cases and iterative attacks made my head hurt in earlier editions and slowed down the game too much. Too many errors and too much time spent on the dual wielder guy when the numbers get too complicated. Twin Strike could have been more balanced had they made it -2/-2 and had less stackable damage bonuses. But let's not make everyone a Whirling Barbarian. I HATED that rule. Fake double attacking via just some bonus to hit is not at all satisfying. And completely wipes out wanting to mix and match magic weapons to do cool combos by chaining effects together. Proc chaining is where it's at. And maneuver chaining too.</blockquote>

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