Types and Subtypes question

[Iscariot]

Let me start by saying my character is playing on the Prime Material plane, as that does have bearing on this question.

My character is a human with the celestial (not half-celestial) template. This makes his type Humanoid, with the Extraplanar Subtype.

At the 10th level of his PrC (Initiate of Pistis Sophia, BoED), he becomes a OUtsider, with the Native subtype.

But he's not a native to the Prime Material due to the celestial template, as indicated by the extraplanar subtype.

So what does he become?

OUtsider (Augmented Humanoid, Extraplanar)?

(Editted to fix some typos..heh)

 

[shilsen]

So what does he become?

Celestial (Humanoid, Extraplanar)?

I think that should be Outsider (Augmented Humanoid, Extraplanar). Celestial is not a type under the core rules. Does the PrC say different?

 

[Iscariot]

Bah, my bad

Yeah, OUtsider type. Not Celestial. Thanks for the correction....

Getting the type and the template crossed there.

 

[Prism]

I would say he becomes outsider (augmented humanoid, native, extraplanar)

The native subtype is required mechanically to ensure the character still needs to eat and sleep. Native and extraplanar are not mutually exclusive. For example, a rakshasa born on an outer plane who then travelled to the prime to live would have both the native and extraplanar subtype. An aasimar who travelled to another plane would also have both

The native subtype means that the character has a connection to the material plane or mortal ancestors. They don't always have to be born there

 

[Infiniti2000]

Your character will be Outsider (native, augmented humanoid) when on the prime material, because he's now native to the prime material (he wasn't before). The extraplanar subtype is one that is gained or lost depending on what plane you are currently on (you never have the extraplanar subtype on the transitive planes). Extraplanar in fact is mutually exclusive with native when you are currently on your native plane.

 

[Prism]

The term 'native'

Native Subtype: A subtype applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane (hence the subtype’s name). Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep

This quote starts off by saying native creatures have links to the material plane but finishes by saying they are native to the material plane. Also, what does the bit in bold mean in reference to the material plane. Exactly where in the subtype's name does it make any mention of the material plane.

Extraplanar Subtype: A subtype applied to any creature when it is on a plane other than its native plane. A creature that travels the planes can gain or lose this subtype as it goes from plane to plane. Monster entries assume that encounters with creatures take place on the Material Plane, and every creature whose native plane is not the Material Plane has the extraplanar subtype (but would not have when on its home plane). Every extraplanar creature in this book has a home plane mentioned in its description. Creatures not labeled as extraplanar are natives of the Material Plane, and they gain the extraplanar subtype if they leave the Material Plane. No creature has the extraplanar subtype when it is on a transitive plane, such as the Astral Plane, the Ethereal Plane, and the Plane of Shadow.

In this quote the term native is applied to any plane not just the material plane. So a creature born on that plane is native to it

However what doesn't make sense is that a native outsider who is born on an outer plane may not actually be native to its own plane of birth depending on how you read this.

I would rule in this particular situation you allow the celestial human to be native to an outer plane, not the material, using the extraplanar description of the term native

 

[Alzrius]

I find that it's easy to get confused about the Native subtype, because a lot of people think (incorrectly) that any Outsider on their home plane has this subtype. This is not true.

The Native subtype indicates that the creature with it has a strong link to the Material Plane specifically. It only, therefore, applies to creatures from that plane. A Balor in the Abyss does not have the Native subtype. (It'd also make no sense that a creature doesn't need to eat or sleep off-plane, but does when returning to its native plane.) A creature with the Native subtype keeps that subtype everywhere he goes.

In contrast to this, we have the Extraplanar subtype. This subtype is applied to any creature not on their native plane (unless it's a Transitive plane). A Balor on the Prime Material Plane is Extraplanar. A creature with the Native subtype in the Abyss has both the Native and Extraplanar subtypes.

As a final note, a creature with the Native subtype shouldn't have the Extraplanar subtype while on the Material Plane, as it is their plane of origin. Even if they were born elsewhere, the Native subtype now indicates that the Material Plane is now considered their home plane.

 

[Prism]

IAs a final note, a creature with the Native subtype shouldn't have the Extraplanar subtype while on the Material Plane, as it is their plane of origin. Even if they were born elsewhere, the Native subtype now indicates that the Material Plane is now considered their home plane.

Generally i agree but this doesn't always make sense. A rakshasa lets say thats born in hell and never visits the prime. Is it native to the prime or native to hell? The extraplanar subtype says one thing, the native subtype another

 

[Alzrius]

Generally i agree but this doesn't always make sense. A rakshasa lets say thats born in hell and never visits the prime. Is it native to the prime or native to hell? The extraplanar subtype says one thing, the native subtype another

The answer being that said rakshasa doesn't have the Native subtype, no matter where it is. There is a difference between being native to a plane and having the Native subtype, the same way you can be of a good alignment and not have the Good subtype.

 

[Prism]

The answer being that said rakshasa doesn't have the Native subtype, no matter where it is. There is a difference between being native to a plane and having the Native subtype, the same way you can be of a good alignment and not have the Good subtype.

Thats why I picked Rakshasa because they are in fact native outsiders. Iscariots original example also is a native outsider that was not born on the prime and in fact may never have been to the prime not knowing the details of the campaign