Typical per-round damage output of a 16th level party?

I'm trying to prep for a big fight against a unique red dragon, and I'm thinking of upping his HP to make sure he lasts long enough for the party to enjoy the environment of the battle.

So, against something with AC 33, which flies at range, about how much damage do you think a party will do per round?
 

log in or register to remove this ad


Depends on the party composition and in particular their ability at range, or the availability of spells like Fly.

My party of 15th level characters is just about to start a battle against a mummy dragon, which is probably roughly the same as what you're describing. The AC is probably good enough to avoid them using Power Attack for too many points, and most of the lower order attacks will likely miss. I wouldn't think they'd hit that often, but you can count on most hits being about 25-30 points of damage, excluding criticals. It's the spellcasters that are going to be doing the worst damage, particularly at range, even against the SR. If they're prepared for this battle and its equal CR to party level, I wouldn't count on it lasting too long. There might be casualties, but higher level parties have lots of resources and can kill things fairly quickly.

Pinotage
 

Ditto what Pinotage said, high level parties tend to chew through appropriate CR encounters quickly (in game time, in real time it can sometimes slow to a crawl... but that is a different thread). Also, watch out for touch/ranged touch spells and Wraithstrike/Deep Impact. Dragons have **** for touch AC.
 

Also, even at this level, downdraft can be a game ender against a dragon if you are allowing the Spell Compendium. Once they close, the damage gets much higher. If they know they are likely to be fighting a dragon, count on them having it...

Mark
 

Of course on the ground the Dragon can get a full attack in. In the air, he's "just" spells, fly-bys and breath weapon.

What size is it? If you give it the feat can it do a fly-by snatch?

Or how about putting a rider on it? Seriously a dragon with an allied rider with loads of Ride skill and Mounted Combat, that's one mundane attack countered each round. Then the ride can be an archer and get a full attack off each round while the dragon is moving. Or a spell caster and get additional spells of, or give additional protection to the dragon.
 

AC33 seems a bit wimpy at that level, to be honest.

I would expect a 16th level archer focussed character to have about +28 (BAB +16, Dex +8, Magic bow +4 (GMW))

He might be a ranger with favoured enemy or fighter with greater weapon specialisation, and if he knows he is going to be tackling a dragon I would expect a dragonbane bow.

I'm pretty sure that the attack bonus would end up being +2-4 higher due to buffs (heroism, bardic song, prayers, whatever) So it could be +32 say.

So with Rapid shot our fighter might be attacking at +30/+30/+25/+20/+15, each attack doing (in the dragonbane example) 1d8+4(mighty bow)+4(specialisation or favoured enemy) +4 (magic bow) +2d6+2 (bane property), for 1d8+2d6+14, avg 25.5, or 62.5 on a crit.

His hit chance for his attacks are 90%, 90%, 65%, 40%, 15%, so ignoring crits he would average about 76 damage per round.

If clerics and wizards are broadly comparable through their own methods (big assumption), then maybe an optimised four person party might be expected to average about 300 damage per round?
 

Okay, so here's a D&D Rules Forum exclusive, available for one week only, a sample of the opening scene from War of the Burning Sky, adventure nine, The Festival of Dreams. I didn't like how the initial fight went in playtest, so I'm reworking it for an appropriately epic beginning.

Here's the cover of the adventure. It is my favorite of the entire series.


[imager]http://www.enworld.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=29172&stc=1[/imager]Act One:
Time to Slay the Dragon

In this act, the heroes enter the city of Gate Pass and defeat one of Ragesia’s mightiest warriors, the dragon Vorax-Hûl. Defeating him signals the defenders of Gate Pass to rise up for a unified push against the occupying army.


The Tower of the Dragon (EL 20)
The grand square of Gate Pass is deserted in the middle of night, dominated by the towering, ninety foot tall statue of the late Emperor Coaltongue, holding a massive bronze-cast version of the Torch of the Burning Sky over its head. Erected decades ago, it faces east in challenge to the nation of Shahalesti, but the people of Gate Pass kept as a sort of trophy after they drove out the Ragesians forty years ago.

The heroes’ destination, however, is at the west end of the square, the Spire Clocktower. Though taller than the Coaltongue statue, it lies on lower ground and so only comes to the colossus’s shoulder.

Instrumental in the defeat of Gate Pass’s defenders was the red dragon Vorax-Hûl, a near-legendary beast whom the new Empress Leska convinced to fight by promising him power, followers, and grand treasure. He already possessed strange powers unknown to most dragons, but now he also boasts a powerful ward from Leska, and a massive bone mask that resembles the skull masks inquisitors wear, though crafted of entire humanoid skeletons. This mask contains the spirits of four inquisitors, who now serve only to protect Vorax-Hûl.

The mighty dragon lairs in the Spire Clocktower, content to occasionally swoop through the city and terrorize the citizens while he waits for the Ragesians to gather his tribute. With him at their command, the Ragesians can easily quell any rebellion, so the resistance is unwilling to fight openly unless the heroes can manage to slay the fell beast.

Map: (This my dinky draft version that I sent to the cartographer for proper design)
attachment.php


Ground Level: A 20-ft. high iron fence surrounds the clocktower. The gates are unlocked, since Vorax-Hûl assumes none would dare attack him. Rantle [[the party’s NPC contact from the resistance]] can tell the heroes that emissaries from the Ragesians often enter the clocktower with the latest treasure for the dragon’s hoard. He knows some sort of magic watches the skies near the clocktower, which alerts Vorax-Hûl if anyone tries to fly to his roost, so Rantle suggests trying to attack the dragon in its lair, sneaking up the interior of the tower to hopefully catch the wyrm off guard.

Double doors lead into the clocktower interior, and then narrow stairs spiral around the square inside, rising a hundred and fifty feet to level one.

Level One: Here lairs Vorax-Hûl, curled upon an awe-inspiring hoard of coins in the northwest corner. He has torn a massive hole in the west wall through which he comes and goes. On the eastern side of the room is the huge mechanism of the clock itself, a pendulum slowly cutting across the area marked in gray while smaller mechanisms whir quietly. The mechanism area is dangerous, requiring a Climb check (DC 15) to move 5 ft., and a Reflex save (DC 15) every 5 ft. to avoid taking 2d6 points of bludgeoning damage from the gears.

If jammed or heavily damaged, the gears of the clock break. The face of the clock is a huge glass setting with multiple pieces that shatters with ease.

Level Two: Stairs lead up from level one to level two’s catwalks, which simply provide a somewhat safe route of approach the dragon’s sleeping place. Stairs from here lead forty feet up to the bell tower.

Bell Tower: The bell tower level is open to the sky, with just four columns supporting the top of the tower. It is even possible to walk from the balcony to the roof, though this is perilous, for a clan of mercenary gargoyle strikers live here, elite bodyguards and watchdogs for the dragon (represented by X’s on the map). The roof slopes down at a 45-degree angle (the edge of the roof is 190 ft. off the ground), while inside four huge bells hang, connected by complex gears to the clock mechanism below.

Encounter: Before combat, Vorax-Hûl should easily hear the heroes coming unless they are very stealthy. Intrigued by their audacity, he confronts them with questions when they arrive, trying to get a sense of the heroes’ powers and who is in charge. He wonders why they oppose Ragesia, why they haven’t sought to make a deal like he has, and how they hope to possibly defeat him. He is offended by attempts to win his favor, unless the heroes have a particularly cruel past and he can trust that by allying with them he’ll have a chance to lay waste to more cities. Otherwise, Vorax-Hûl will eventually boast of his invincibility and attack.

Vorax-Hûl (CR 20). 434 hp. [sblock]
Vorax-Hûl CR 20
The beast’s scales are the color of smoke and fire, and they scrape like the clash of sword against sword as the creature moves. This massive red dragon wears a mask of humanoid bones upon its face, and its teeth crackle with dark energy.

Male old red dragon
NE Gargantuan dragon (fire)
Init +0; Senses Listen +31, Spot +31, blindsense 60 ft., darkvision 120 ft.
Languages Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Dwarf, Elf, Infernal, Orc
AC 33, touch 6, flat-footed 33 (-4 size, +27 natural)
hp 434 (28 HD); DR 10/magic
Fort +23, Ref +16, Will +16
SR 24
Immune fire, paralysis, sleep
Speed 40 ft. (8 squares), fly 100 ft. (clumsy)
Melee bite +37 (4d8+12, 19-20),
and two claws +32 (2d8+6),
and two wings +32 (2d6+6),
and a tail slap +32 (4d6+18);
Base Atk +28; Grp +52
Space 20 ft.; Reach 15 ft. (20 ft. w/bite)
Combat Options awesome blow, breath weapon, frightful presence, hurl debris, snatch, trample 4d6+18
Spell-like Abilities (CL 11th)
3/day – locate object, quickened suggestion (DC 18)
Abilities Str 35, Dex 10, Con 29, Int 20, Wis 10, Cha 20
SQ dragon traits, frightful presence, Leska’s ward
Feats Awesome Blow, Flyby Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (bite), Improved Natural Attack (bite), Power Attack, Quicken Spell-like Ability (suggestion), Snatch, Weapon Focus (bite)
Skills Appraise +36, Bluff +36, Concentration +38, Intimidate +36, Knowledge (arcana) +36, Knowledge (history) +36, Listen +31, Search +36, Sense Motive +31, Spellcraft +22, Spot +31

Awesome Blow (Ex): As a standard action, Vorax-Hûl can make a claw attack with a -4 penalty. If he hits, the creature struck must make a Reflex save (DC = damage dealt) or be sent flying 10 ft.

Breath Weapon (Su): Vorax-Hûl can unleash his breath weapon in three different forms. He can only use one of these breath weapon forms in any given round, and after he uses his gout of flame he cannot use it again for the next three rounds.

First is a gout of flame. As a standard action, Vorax-Hûl can release a 60-ft. cone of fire that deals 16d10 points of damage (Reflex DC 31 for half). Creatures caught in the area are knocked back 20 ft. away from Vorax-Hûl (Fortitude DC 31 negates). Creatures that strike a solid object take an additional d6 points of damage.

Second is a lashing tongue of fire. As a standard action, Vorax-Hûl can create a shapeable path of flame that fills twenty-four continguous 5-ft. squares, which must start adjacent to him. Creatures in the area take 8d10 points of fire damage (Reflex DC 31 half).

Third is a seeking ball of fire. As a swift action, Vorax-Hûl can spit a blast of fire, targeting any creature it can see. The blast of fire travels 120 ft. per round toward that creature, flying with average manueverability for three rounds or until it hits a solid object. When it hits, the ball explodes, dealing 4d10 points of damage (Reflex DC 31 half).

Frightful Presence (Su): 240-ft. radius, Will DC 29 or be shaken for 4d6 rounds.

Hurl Debris (Ex): One of Vorax-Hûl’s favorite tactics is to throw massive objects down at his foes. As a move action, Vorax-Hûl can pick up an object roughly the size of a Huge creature from the ground (or tear it free from wherever it is anchored). This could be a massive slab of stone from the ground, a small house, or the actual corpse of a huge creature. He can then hurl it as a standard action, with a range of 50 ft. Creatures in a 15-ft. square area must make a Reflex save (DC 36) or take 4d12+12 damage.

Vorax-Hûl can instead drop the debris from any height as a swift action, hurling it to any point directly below himself, but creatures get a +5 bonus to their save to avoid the attack for every 50 ft. the debris falls from.

Leska’s Ward (Su): Whenever a magic item touches Vorax-Hûl, that item’s wielder must make a Will save (DC 29). If he fails, the item’s magical effects are suppressed for 5 rounds. If this happens to a magic weapon that strikes Vorax-Hûl, the item still deals damage as a magic weapon before its powers are suppressed.

Snatch (Ex): Vorax-Hûl can start a grapple as a free action if he hits with a bite or claw attack, as if he had Improved Grab. He usually takes a -20 penalty so that he does not count as being grappled himself. The creature takes automatic bite or claw damage each round it remains held. He can release the creature as a free action, or fling him d6x10 ft. as a standard action, dealing d6 damage per 10 ft. thrown (or falling damage, if it would be greater).

Trample (Ex): Vorax-Hûl uses this ability to smash through surrounding foes if his breath weapon doesn’t knock them clear. Reflex half DC 36.

New Item – Mask of Vorax-Hûl (CR 17)
This mask is formed of the skeletons four inquisitors lashed together with the bones of other beasts, the inquisitors’ souls bound and forced to serve their draconic master. These four inquisitors are devoted solely to negating hostile magic directed toward Vorax-Hûl. Effectively, each round each inquisitor can perform a single action among those detailed below.

Each inquisitor has the following spell-like abilities (caster level 11th):
1/day – freedom of movement, heal, restoration, spell immunity
2/day – break enchantment, cure serious wounds, protection from energy

Additionally, six times per day each inquisitor can attempt to rebuke magic, dispelling or counterspelling a single magical effect within 210 ft. It rolls d20+11 against DC 11 + spell’s caster level. It can counterspell as an immediate action, but if it does so it can take no action the next round.

Attacks can be directed toward the mask (AC 14, DR 15/magic and bludgeoning), which has 200 hit points. Every 50 points of damage dealt to the mask destroys one of the inquisitors. Spells that affect an area half damage to the mask if Vorax-Hûl fails his save, and none if he succeeds. Each inquisitor can be turned as if it were a 15 hit die undead creature. Their saves are Fort +3 and Will +12. If targeted individually, they always fail Reflex saves. They are immune to cold, electricity, and polymorph effects.[/sblock]

Gargoyle strikers (12, CR 9). 74 hp. [sblock]

Gargoyle Striker CR 9
The stony, crouched figure springs to life, its joints grinding as it draws back a dark, gleaming glaive.

NE Medium Monstrous Humanoid (earth)
Init +0; Senses[/b] Listen +4, Spot +4, darkvision 60 ft.
Languages Common, Terran
AC 24, touch 12, flat-footed 22 (+2 Dex, +12 natural)
hp 74 (9 HD); DR 10/adamantine
Fort +6, Ref +8, Will +6
Speed 50 ft. (10 squares), fly 70 ft. (average)
Melee two claws +15 (d4+6),
or adamantine glaive +17 (d10+9, x3, reach)
Base Atk +9; Grp +19
Combat Options combat reflexes, flyby attack, reckless offense, sneak attack +3d6
Abilities Str 22, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 7
SQ freeze
Feats Combat Reflexes, Flyby Attack, Improved GrappleB, Reckless Offense, Weapon Focus (glaive)
Skills Hide +12, Listen +4, Spot +4

Freeze (Ex): A gargoyle can hold itself so still it appears to be a statue. An observer must succeed on a DC 20 Spot check to notice the gargoyle is really alive.

Reckless Offense (Ex): Gargoyle strikers can take a -4 penalty to AC for one round to gain a +2 bonus to their attack rolls. They usually do this while charging.

Sneak Attack (Ex): Gargoyle strikers have sneak attack +3d6. [/sblock]

Tactics: This scene is designed with three stages, though stage one won’t occur if the heroes attack by air instead of ascending the stairs.

Stage one occurs in the dragon’s lair. Vorax-Hûl uses his lashing tongue of fire breath weapon as a first attack, then relies on his seeking breath weapon and melee attacks for one or two rounds. If the heroes keep their distance, the layout of the clocktower limits Vorax-Hûl from using his claws, so all he can do is bite, hoping to snatch a foe in his teeth. During this stage, the inquisitors of the mask focus on counterspelling to defend their master. When Vorax-Hûl is reduced below 250 hit points or when he manages to grab a foe, he’ll withdraw through the hole on the west wall. He refrains from using his gout of flame unless it is the only way to clear out his enemies, because he is not willing yet to melt his lair.

Stage two is the meat of the battle, and occurs in the air outside the clocktower. The gargantuan dragon keeps his distance, using his different breath weapons when he is close, and then withdrawing to a few hundred feet away to pick up debris so he can hurl it at the clocktower or wherever the heroes happen to be. During this stage the inquisitors try to take out flying abilities of the heroes, desiring to leave them stranded on the clocktower while Vorax-Hûl controls the pace of the battle.

His typical pattern is on the first round to come within 100 ft. to use his lashing tongue of fire, then on the second round to ‘run’ to over 300 ft. away (beyond the reach of Medium-range spells), diving at the end to ground level. On round three he picks up something huge to throw, then spirals upward, ascending 50 ft. per move action. He stops ascending 250 ft. up at the end of round five, and then he ‘runs’ back on the sixth round, dropping the debris on the heroes from 50 ft. up as a free action and sweeping past them. Then the pattern repeats. During this time he roars and boasts, laughing every time he manages to peg a hero with a house or church steeple.

The gargoyles on the roof also join the battle, though they prefer to wait and ambush the heroes if they hear people climbing the stairs to the belltower level. In combat they’ll swarm one or two foes, and if heavily injured will try to grapple a foe and drag him to his death, perhaps even plummeting with him. The gargoyles are mostly here to give the heroes something to deal with while the dragon is away.

When Vorax-Hûl is reduced below 100 hit points, or when the mask is destroyed, or if his tactics are ineffective, Vorax-Hûl stops hanging back, and closes for the final battle.

Stage three works best if the inquisitors have been doing their job properly to knock out the flying abilities of the heroes, keeping them stuck on the clocktower. Preferably, Vorax-Hûl will be able to catch the heroes in a devastating gout of flame that will knock them off the rooftop while simultaneously setting the tower on fire. If anyone remains, he’ll either use flyby attacks with awesome blow to knock them down, or just charge into melee with as many foes as he can reach at once, convinced his claws and teeth will not fail him.

Aftermath: When Vorax-Hûl falls, he roars in fury and combusts from within, flames bursting out of his scales as he flails and screams, until finally only charred bones and the husk of the dragon’s scales crash to the earth. At this point, the heroes are to ring the bells to sound the defeat of Vorax-Hûl (Rantle has a scroll of fabricate, just in case the bells got melted). The bells toll, and then a few moments later, the faintest of cheers can be heard going up around the city as word spreads that the rebellion has begun.
 

Attachments

  • Time for a Dragon Fight.jpg
    Time for a Dragon Fight.jpg
    81.1 KB · Views: 632
Last edited:

That dragon needs some AC boosters urgently.

A level 13 scout5/ranger8 with Imp Skirmish and Greater Manyshot alone would kill it. Easily. Breath weapon won't scare him with Evasion. AC 33 is something he'll hit blindly. Even though dragons aren't his favored enemy, he might switch between hasted Rapid Shot (+21/+21/+21/+16 without the usual bards song and other bonuses... I think he has +5 more to hit) and Greater Manyshot with three arrows (3 times +5d6 or +6d6 for skirmish).

And his AC is probably better than the dragons.

Add in the possible Oath bow... and you have a dead dragon with hardly a challenge to the players.
 

The dragon is spending 4 rounds setting up an attack that does 38 damage in a smallish area. Even if he hits 2 characters with his debris, it's still a whole 19 damage damage per round.
 

Remove ads

Top