Typical per-round damage output of a 16th level party?

[RangerWickett]

Good point. I wanted to have some dynamic pacing for the encounter, but I was using a 'gargantuan weapon' as a baseline. I think I'll just make it the same as dropping a house on someone, which would be 20d6. Plus the effects of an avalanche. How about:

Creatures in a 15-ft. square take 20d6 damage and are buried. A Reflex save (DC 36) halves the damage and leaves the creature only partially buried.

Buried characters take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage per minute. If a buried character falls unconscious, he or she must make a DC 15 Constitution check or take 1d6 points of lethal damage each minute thereafter until freed or dead. Digging one’s way free requires three Strength checks (DC 24), each a standard action. A partially buried creature requires only one Strength check to get free.

Anyway, you say the AC is too low? And here I thought dragons, as designed, had high ACs. But apparently balor, horned devils, marut, nightcrawlers, pit fiends, solars, titans, and the tarrasque have higher AC than 33. Plus some other high-CR dragons. Hm.

However, usually the dragon will be far away, so Greater Manyshot won't help (range 30 ft.). And while he's out of range, his mask will be healing him. What sorts of long-range dangers are there?

 

[brehobit]

Where are his spells? Just a shield and a mage armor would help a lot (Though they'd be easy to dispel). Plus some useful magic items. A monk's belt comes to mind as being darn useful...

Mark

 

[RangerWickett]

He's a variant dragon. I didn't give him spells, and gave him the magical defense and variant breath weapons instead.

The lack of mage armor and shield is a personal thing. I think it's foolish to have dragon spellcasters. Dragons are supposed to tear you to pieces and blast you with their breath weapon, not cast buff spells. I'd sooner just give him a higher AC automatically than have him cast mage armor and shield.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Give it Combat Expertise and possibly Improved Combat Expertise. Dragons usually have enough of an attack bonus to spare.

 

[Pinotage]

Give it Combat Expertise and possibly Improved Combat Expertise. Dragons usually have enough of an attack bonus to spare.

That's a very good suggestion! Hadn't thought about that. Of course, that's only useful in melee.

The dragon on the whole has a lot going for it. Decent hp, flying, and a way to avoid magic. That mask with Heal is going to be a great boon, and will go a long way to keeping the dragon alive. By the looks of it it's fairly decent and should give the characters a run for their money. I'd add suggestions on changing tactics if the PCs are dishing out a lot of damage to it while it's flying and staying out of range.

Pinotage

 

[Bagpuss]

A dragon should be wearing some of his hoard things like Rings of Protection, Amulet of Natural Armour, etc. that will boost it's AC somewhat. Give it a Charisma boosting item (or Eagle's Splendour) as well to boost the DC on all it's spell saves (it being a sorcerer).

Also and Old Red is an 11th level sorcerer why doesn't it Buff with spells like Cat's Grace, Bull's Strength, Eagles Splendor, Mage Armour, Shield, etc?

It has as known spells
9 - 0 level
5 - 1st level
5 - 2nd level
4 - 3rd level
3 - 4th level
2 - 5th level

and it's not even suggested what they are or what it would do with them.

It's 1st level Mage Armour would last 11 hours so if it had that it would cast it every morning.
Buffs that last a minute or so he could have cast before the meeting so Shield could be up.

Imagine if the dragon gets a Lesser Globe of Invunerability, Displacement or Greater Invisibility up.

Wall of Force he could have that up between him and the party at the start so their first attacks hit the wall. Then he could drop more to split the party so he can pick on the weaker ones. Wall of Force is handy because it can't be dispelled. Perhaps he cast it with his Rod of Extend from his hoard.

Looking at other higher level spells, why Quicken Suggestion, when you can Dominate Person on the weak willed fighter? The DC is 22 assuming he's got Eagle's Splendour up, more if you give it a Spell Focus feat instead of Quicken Spell like ability.

Heck with all that time to prepare it could not be the dragon the party see when the get to the chamber but and illusion and the dragon actually has greater invisibility up.

 

[Thanee]

The lack of mage armor and shield is a personal thing. I think it's foolish to have dragon spellcasters. Dragons are supposed to tear you to pieces and blast you with their breath weapon, not cast buff spells. I'd sooner just give him a higher AC automatically than have him cast mage armor and shield.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Bagpuss]

Missed that while looking at the dragon stats, but if you are removing the spell casting ability you need to up the AC for the magic protection a dragon is assumed to have.

 

[Darklone]

However, usually the dragon will be far away, so Greater Manyshot won't help (range 30 ft.). And while he's out of range, his mask will be healing him. What sorts of long-range dangers are there?

You're right, I'm used to highly mobile PCs with flying, haste and Fast Movement.

The Rapid Shot archer with Oathbow might still be a problem for the dragon, but it's not half as bad as I thought.

 

[brehobit]

OK,
I'd missed that the mask can cure 440 points of damage in one round and 98 points of damage in two other rounds (on the average) as a free action for the dragon. Toss in the counter spell (d20 vs caster level) and this guy is going to eat casters -- all but something like a warmage will be really hosed.

The cold vulnerability will be hard to exploit given the 8 protection from energy spells (110 point of damage each) that can be cast. The mask should cast one of those right away, as well as freedom of movement.

If a caster throws the same spell more than once, a spell immunity should go up.

So this seems like it will come down to save or die spells (Will save of +16 isn't _that_ hard to beat at this level, and SR 24 isn't too bad either) or hand-to-hand combat. And it will be a heck of a long battle before the PCs win, unless the save or die kicks in.

So my call:
Ranged combat for damage will fail badly. Caster's will run out of spells too soon, and even orbs will have a hard time given the protection from energy and the potential to counter spell spells (I think 25% of spells will be dropped this way). A warmage will of course be best here (start with cold, keep changing and a LOT of attack spells) but a wizard will run out of spells and a sorc. will find spell resistance stopping his best spells after a bit. Toss in the healing, and well, things are ugly. The problem is the breath weapons don't do enough to be a huge pain: the party can likely managed to heal fast enough that ranged combat won't be that deadly for the party either.

Hand-to-hand might be pretty crazy too. The ward is huge. A full-attacker will be facing a lack of a magic item on the 2nd or 3rd attack in the round almost for certain and the DR10 will kick in. Ugly. That said, a good hand-to-hand party has a chance of eathin this guy in 3 rounds even with all the healing.

The final option is throwing a variety of save-or-lose spells. Most parties will only have a few, and spell immunity should knock them down after a bit. My high-level caster would start with hold and charm spells and the freedom of movement and break enchantments would completely kill them off (not to mention spell immunity after a while). After that she'd shift to buffs, esp. if she figures it out.

So it looks to me like the best bet the party has is to wait for the dragon to be within 50' of the ground and cast "downdraft" and close like mad. That's what the (lower-level) party I have would do.

In any case, unless a save-or-die spell gets past all defenses, this will be a long LONG combat. This thing has more than 1000 effective hit points. With protection from energy a lot more than that. Dude, long fight.

Mark