UA and Alternate XP Systems

[rushlight]

So, is anyone using the Level-Independant XP system from UA? If you've not seen it, it's like 2nd edition, where each monster gives a discrete XP value, as opposed to the XP value you get from cross-referencing the party's level and the CR.

So, if you have, what do you think? I'm considering it, and I'd like to see what some other people think about it. If you've seen it, and didn't use it - why? Are there some hidden pitfalls one should be aware of?

Thanks!

 

[hong]

The only reason for it seems to be to avoid the hassle of having to look up different XP figures each time. I just turned the DMG table into a spreadsheet, which solves the convenience problem (assuming you have a PC handy when you game).

 

[Trainz]

I have switched to that system myself, and I'm quite glad I did. Much faster XP computing.

I also expanded the character level table and monster CR xp table. In UA, they go up to 20, I expanded them up to level... 60. Took me about 4 hours to compute. But I had to for my epic game at the time.

 

[francisca]

I've switched to it, though with some modifications in the XP awards. It does not follow the 13.33 encounters per level of advancement after 9th level. So if you are stickler for it, that might bother you. In particular, the encounters per level of advancement swing between 12.6 and 14.3, which is within 5 and 7%, respectivley, so it certainly isn't a show stopper by any means, and there is nothing wrong at all with using it as is.

But, as I was in one of those "can't leave it alone" moods, I figured out the awards to make it a consistent 13.33... encounter per level for the standard fab-4 style party. I think Trainz already did this, and my numbers should match his:

Level 1-9 are the same as the book, here are the rest:

CR XP Award
10 10200
11 15000
12 18000
13 30000
14 36000
15 60000
16 75000
17 123000
18 150000
19 240000
20 300000

I like the system for the same reasons Trainz mentioned, and I recommend it whole-heartedly.

 

[Trainz]

[...] But, as I was in one of those "can't leave it alone" moods, I figured out the awards to make it a consistent 13.33... encounter per level for the standard fab-4 style party. I think Trainz already did this, and my numbers should match his: [...]

No, I didn't do that (deedundoodad). I sticked with the values in UA, but extrapolated the tables past CR 20 / level 20, up to level/CR 60.

Comme tu l'as dit, les valeurs sont si près du fameux 13.33, que je ne m'en préoccupe pas. Je ne l'avais même pas remarqué ! Comment a tu fait pour t'en rendre compte ?

 

[rushlight]

Ok, that sounds good so far!

What about high party levels vs low CR monsters? My current party is avg level 20th. Do you not award XP for monsters of CR 12th or lower (or so, I can't remember off hand where the standard table cuts off XP)? Or do you feel the lower XP values balance out?

Thanks for your input!

 

[BigAlzBub]

While the system is much quicker, it is not with out its downsides, the main one being people who lose levels (due to death or energy drain) can never catch up with their peers because everyone gets the same XP. Also it is open to abuse by munchkin, rule lawyer, types, as they will go off and wipe out entire tribes of orcs, goblins, kobolds, etc because they will still get XP off these puny creatures.

Don't get me wrong, I think overall, the system is good but these sorts of small changes to the rules can have drastic consequence, some of which are not imediately apparent.

 

[rushlight]

While the system is much quicker, it is not with out its downsides, the main one being people who lose levels (due to death or energy drain) can never catch up with their peers because everyone gets the same XP.

Even though they get the same XP values, wouldn't they level faster since it takes much less XP to gain levels lower than the party?

Also it is open to abuse by munchkin, rule lawyer, types, as they will go off and wipe out entire tribes of orcs, goblins, kobolds, etc because they will still get XP off these puny creatures.

That's nothing that a good whack with a DMG and continous pelting with d20s won't fix. Plus, the availability of tribes of low-level guys is limited to where I put them. But I'm not above placing one in a convienient place when the player looks for it... only to discover that they are watched over by their Dragon "god" whom they worship (and "sacrifice" treasure to!). But then, I'm mean like that.

 

[Hjorimir]

I use a system much like that used in Harp. Basically it is level independent, but the key is that you determine the difficulty of an encounter after the fact.

Let me re-phrase that. Once the battle has been completed you determine how difficult of an encounter it actually turned out to be. If the players route their opponents in little to no time and suffer almost no injuries the encounter is worth substantially less than a drawn out fight where victory is won only in the final rounds of conflict.

The system also lends itself well to role-playing, as it is goal oriented. An encounter is nothing more than a minor goal that pushes the group towards a major goal. There are two levels and two types of goals: Major & Minor, Group & Personal. I love the system.

 

[Trainz]

While the system is much quicker, it is not with out its downsides, the main one being people who lose levels (due to death or energy drain) can never catch up with their peers because everyone gets the same XP.

Not so....

The disparity between level differences was applied to the monster's CR, but the new system has transfered that disparity to the character xp table instead.

Works about the same.

And, yes, it does mean that your 20th level PC's will get XP from CR 1 critters, but the amount is so little compared to their XP requirement for the next level that you could just as well not give the XP.

An interesting thing that DOES happen is that level 6 PC's could theoretically get XP from a CR 20 critter... IF they kill it. Of course, the circumstances surrounding such an achievement would have to be studied carefully, because in theory, your PC's shouldn't be able to achieve this. Such an XP jump would level-up a group of four 6th level PC's to... level 11. After one encounter.

BUT.... one must remember that you cannot gain more than one level per encounter, thus the PC's would be level 7, 1 xp short of level 8. Substantial, but not campaign shattering in most cases.