UA Generic Classes

[thullgrim]

Anyone using these? If so how are they working out. I am considering them for my next campaign but wanted some feedback on them first. Also anyone thought about a generic half-caster type: caster level equal class level, 3/3 Bab, 2 good saves, d8 hd, no spells higher than 6th etc?

Thullgrim

 

[Belegbeth]

Anyone using these? If so how are they working out. I am considering them for my next campaign but wanted some feedback on them first. Also anyone thought about a generic half-caster type: caster level equal class level, 3/3 Bab, 2 good saves, d8 hd, no spells higher than 6th etc?

Thullgrim

I love the idea of Generic Classes. But...

The Expert class is seriously underpowered relative to the other classes.

My reasoning: (a) the Warrior is essentially equivalent to the Fighter (lacks heavy armour and wall shield proficiency; gains additional flexibility in choice of feats); (b) the Spellcaster is essentially equivalent to the Sorcerer (has fewer spells per day, but gains more feats and access to all spells, and can potentially use armour, with the appropriate feats). But the Expert, which should be equivalent (roughly) to the Rogue, has fewer skills, FAR fewer feats/class abilities; and only slighter better saves.

Anyway, my suggestions:

1. Give the Expert a d8 HD and 8 skill points per level.

2. Treat the Semi-spellcaster as a spellcaster, BUT with: d6 Hd; 6 skill points per level; and the Bard Spell Progression Chart.

Just some suggestions!

 

[Li Shenron]

I think generic classes are a good alternative to core classes, but I wouldn't use them both at the same time. I haven't tried them yet, however.

The closest thing I have used for a little while, was to have only Fighters, Rogues and Druids in the campaign, but letting the Druids customize their spell list with possibly any other spell in the PHB, and transforming class abilities (from missing classes) into new feats or skills.

 

[Particle_Man]

And then there were two...

Actually, I think that the generic expert can be done away with entirely. Just add a new feat, which can be taken multiple times, that adds 2 class skills and adds 2 skill points/level (quadrupled at first level as normal if this feat is taken at first character level).

Partially this was because I agreed that the Expert was underpowered (you can search for that rant using keywords "expert" and "shaft") but also because I came to realize that their "niche" could be easily duplicated by feats that give skill points, as above. I mean, what does the expert "do" except have skill points? The warrior can fight, the spell-caster can cast spells, but since they all have access to full choices in class skills, the expert only has "more class skills, more skill points", and that is frankly not enough to hang a hat on.

Oddly enough, even with just the two generic classes, there is still a prestige class that might solve your partial spellcaster problems: Eldritch Knight. You get a great BAB, almost perfect spell progression, and at the cost of a drop-off in feats (only 1, instead of 1/five levels for spellcaster). I guess that brings it back to three classes again. For divine spellcasters, you can create the Carbon Copy Divine Knight (or just do what I do - smoosh the two spellcaster classes together and say that all spells are both divine and arcane, just to simplify things further -- I mean, the only real difference is two feats (turn undead, familiar) and armour spell check penalty (arcane). Unless someone thinks that having the potential to gain a familiar is wayyyy better than having the potential to turn undead, it seems like the divine spellcaster outclasses the arcane spellcaster when it comes to wearing armour, unless one does something. On the "spells are both divine and arcane" rule, armour hurts the spellcaster's chance of casting, but the spell caster can potentially both have a familiar and turn undead - oh, and the spellcaster can pick any of the three "mental stats" to be the relevant spellcasting stat).

So in total, I like the idea of going even MORE generic (one spellcaster not two, no expert) but then putting in a prestige class. This leaves us with warrior, spell-caster, and (possibly) Eldritch Knight.

Oh, I would also give the warrior access to Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and Greater Weapon Specialization, using the warrior levels instead of "fighter" levels (since there are no fighters). I also would extend those feats so that at 16th level the warrior could potentially get "Even Greater Weapon Focus" (+3 instead of +2) and at 20th level the warrior could get "Even Greater Weapon Specialization" (+6 instead of +4).

 

[Particle_Man]

Oh yeah, some more thoughts...

The late and unlamented expert had one other redeeming feature: an extra good save.

Solution: Allow the three "save" feats (Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude) to be taken multiple times, with their effects stacking. Note that this allows the warrior to get exactly what the expert had at the cost of 5 feats, and the warrior has 4 more feats than the expert anyhow. Oh, and better armour proficiencies and BAB. (The warrior would still lack 2 class skills and Profession as a class skill. I suppose that you could allow the warrior to substitute Profession for Craft in his class skills. As for the other, I don't see that having 12 instead of 10 class skills would make a huge difference, given that one has choice over one's class skills, but the "jack of all trades" warrior could always spend yet another feat to get skill points and 2 more class skills if it would).

Also, to stop multi-classing saving throw cheese: Have the character pick the initial good save, as per generic rules, but have the three saves tied to the CHARACTER level, not the class level, from now on. (This would override the Eldritch Knight save table, if you use EK. Oh, and for the generic flavour, I would let the bonus feat for the 1st level EK be from anywhere, not restricted to the fighter list).

There might still be a problem with muli-classing for the bonus feats, but I doubt it. If you think that it would be a problem, simply subtract the 1st feat from the Warrior and Spellcaster classes, and give the 1st level character a bonus feat. I would still allow the EK to keep its bonus feat, since it cannot be taken earlier than 8th character level (and it IS a prestige class, after all)

 

[Particle_Man]

This may be turning into my personal blog

Hmmm...on thinking about it, I think I would remove the first feat from the EK after all. It seems a bit powerful compared to the "Straight" spellcaster otherwise.

On class skills: Make it tied to the character not the class. Have the 1st level character pick 6 class skills, plus craft and profession, or 4 class skills, plus knowledge (all), craft and profession. If the character wants more class skills they can pay feats for it. EK does not add more class skills.

Give 20th level spell caster one extra 9th level spell slot per day.

Other feats: Rage (can rage 1x/day as per barbarian). Varoius rogue special abilities, various monk special abilities.

Are you planning on going epic? Or stopping at a lower level?

 

[AFGNCAAP]

A voice for an as-is use of generics

I like the generic classes, & I'm using them in 2 settings that I'm working on currently (1 is a conversion of Lankhmar; the other is a homebrew based on personal writings). I'm debating using them for my main homebrew campaign as well.

I personally think that the expert is okay as is, however, that's mainly based on the concept that the expert has access to a larger array of class skills, starts with a much larger beginning pool of skill points (24 for an expert, vs. the 8 for a warrior or spellcaster), and is able to maintain good skill ranks in various classes as he/she progresses, and would be able to qualify for certain class-based feats (like Sneak Attack) without needing to devote his/her only skill points to the required skills (a warrior could have Sneak Attack & the related feats, but would have to sacrifice developing other useful skills in the process).

I've created a few 1st-level character-only feats/flaws for the generics that can boost/drop the base Hit Die or the skill point base for a character--just another form of class ability translated into a feat/flaw, if you will.

I think some PrCs can work well with the generics, & some PrCs could be created to accomodate old core classes & their abilities (like raging barbarians, shapechanging druids, & the like). NPC Classes, like core classes, shouldn't be used with generic classes. However, I think a generic NPC class is needed--essentially a generic Commoner class, with no good saves, poor BAB, 1 simple weapon prof., sparse feat acquisition (like the spellcaster's 1 bonus feat per 5 levels, or maybe even 1 bonus feat per 6 levels), a skill point base of 2, and a max of 6-7 skills that can be class skills. It's bassically an option for a non-combatant, non-adventuring generic class (adepts can = Spellcasters, experts = Experts, warriors = Warriors, & aristocrats = Warriors, Experts, or multi-class Expert/Warriors).

That's my 2¢ on the issue.

 

[Squire James]

This is my take on my generics setup:

Spellcaster: d6 HD, +1/2 BAB, +1 Magic Rating, skill pt base 2, 4 class skills, (1 good, 1 average*, 1 bad) saves, Weapon Group (basic) only, no armor.

Expert: d8 HD, +3/4 BAB, +1/2 Magic Rating, skill pt base 8, 12 class skills, (2 good, 1 bad) or (1 good, 2 average*) saves, Weapon Group (basic) plus 2 more, light armor.

Warrior: d10 HD, +1 BAB, +1/4 Magic Rating, skill pt base 4, 8 class skills, (1 good, 1 average*, 1 bad) saves, Weapon Group (basic) plus 4 more, all armor, shields.

*Average saves use the Star Wars/d20 Modern progression, or simply 1/2 (good + bad).

Multiclassing Rules:

1. You gain additional class skills only if your new class has more class skills than any of your old classes. If you do, you choose enough new class skills to make up the difference.

2. Your saves do stack, and you can use a different save progression for each class, but apply a -2 to new "good" save categories and a -1 to the new "average" save categories to avoid saving throw abuse.

3. BAB and Magic Rating are not stripped of their fractions until after adding them together from each class. This avoids a major downside to multi-classing.

 

[LGodamus]

I like them alot. I am using them as a base to work from while Making my DragonBallZd20 game

 

[Remathilis]

Squire James's set up looks alot like mine, less the magic rating and plus defense bonus (spellcaster gets worst, expert medium, warrior good, use SW style progression for MC).

Added a few more feats (basically, the martial arts feats from d20 M, and animal companion).

I asked this over in rules, but does anyone have a breakdown for the spellpoints for a spellcaster? Its less than a sorcerer, but I'm not sure how much less.

Edit: 500th Post! Woot!