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D&D 5E UA Kobold & Hobgoblin: Possibly for a Forgotten Realms Setting Book

We know the Hobgoblin was really for another book for next year, and given Kobold isn't in Fizban's it is possible it was also meant for the book Hobgoblin will be in, I'm wondering could it be part of a broader goal for an FR Campaign Setting Book to redefine the "monstrous" races like Drow, Gobliniods, Kobolds, Orcs, possibly others, to a none "monstrous" state. So do you think those UA races could be intended for a FR setting book all along?
 

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DEFCON 1

Legend
No. I'm still under the belief that WotC is not going to release an entire Faerun setting book. Because the world is just too large to put enough useful setting info for all the other nations of Faerun into it. Most nations would only get like three paragraphs worth of space for description, barely worthwhile to bother, and at that point any player who really wanted to set their game in Turmish could just use the nation's description from the 3E or 4E setting books for all the worth they have. Is it "updated" for the current timeline? No. But if the nation's only going to get a dozen sentences worth of description, how much "updating" are you going to get? It's not worth the time to make it up.

Any further setting material for areas of Faerun I believe will occur via adventures like The North in Storm King's Thunder, or Chult in Tomb of Annihilation. Of if people get really lucky, maybe WotC'll publish something like Dalelands or Cormyr setting book (a la the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide), going into greater detail about one of those areas specifically. That way they can actually put substantial page count towards a true update of the area and actually describe locations, adventure sites, NPCs, and plothooks that players and DMs can actually use. Maybe in that kind of book we could see the new kobold or hobgoblin. Although personally I don't think even a setting book like that is likely. I think they'll save any updates for future adventure books.
 

We know Faerun/Forgotten Realms is the blue-eyed boy of WotC but they shouldn't put all the eggs only in a basket. Forgotten Realms could become a true cash-cow for Hasbro, but the other lines also can be valious multimedia franchises.

Kobolds are perfect as dragons' minions but they should appear as PC race in a generic sourcebook, or in a setting too linked with the dragons (Dragonlance maybe, but I feel my doubts here). A sourcebook about the Feywild is possible, even "Witchlight" (do you like it as name?) like the new setting, but I wouldn't be too surprised if the future setting is Eldraine.

I thought the future new-brand setting would be a reboot of Councyl of Wyrms, with some ideas from Cris Perkins' homebreed settin Iomandra, but now my opinion is all doors are open, and maybe we could see a "spiritual succesor", for example a mixture of Ilkoria (the world with those "kaijus") and Io's blood islands (council of Wyrms). Some dragons could be "packs" or clans ready to create their own demiplanes within the elemental limbo (because there are lot of ore to be exploited). I would bet WotC is thinking about how to desing the new setting to can sell different products, for example toys. Children could buy lot of kaijus-like figures and they would mind the lore at all until later.

Kobolds could be interesting as characters for an animated comedy, like a mixture of digimon, Gruu's minions(Depicable Me) and Tyrion Lannister.

And we should remember Nentir Vale, the new setting from 4th Ed is perfect for "monsters" PCs.
 

Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
Yeah, it's a no from me too. I do think the "revisiting a setting we've done before" probably is Forgotten Realms, but in my mind it's going to center on one specific region like Zakhara, or just the non-Sword Coast regions of the West.

A fey hobgoblin really doesn't make much sense here, and the remade kobold can get slotted anywhere (or is just cut), so I think this is just hopeful speculation.
 

Yeah, it's a no from me too. I do think the "revisiting a setting we've done before" probably is Forgotten Realms, but in my mind it's going to center on one specific region like Zakhara, or just the non-Sword Coast regions of the West.

A fey hobgoblin really doesn't make much sense here, and the remade kobold can get slotted anywhere (or is just cut), so I think this is just hopeful speculation.

Yeah the one specific region will be Faerun 🤣😂😇. Seriously I've heard this one region at a time thing since Tomb of Annihilation and it never happened.
 

No. I'm still under the belief that WotC is not going to release an entire Faerun setting book. Because the world is just too large to put enough useful setting info for all the other nations of Faerun into it. Most nations would only get like three paragraphs worth of space for description, barely worthwhile to bother, and at that point any player who really wanted to set their game in Turmish could just use the nation's description from the 3E or 4E setting books for all the worth they have. Is it "updated" for the current timeline? No. But if the nation's only going to get a dozen sentences worth of description, how much "updating" are you going to get? It's not worth the time to make it up.

Any further setting material for areas of Faerun I believe will occur via adventures like The North in Storm King's Thunder, or Chult in Tomb of Annihilation. Of if people get really lucky, maybe WotC'll publish something like Dalelands or Cormyr setting book (a la the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide), going into greater detail about one of those areas specifically. That way they can actually put substantial page count towards a true update of the area and actually describe locations, adventure sites, NPCs, and plothooks that players and DMs can actually use. Maybe in that kind of book we could see the new kobold or hobgoblin. Although personally I don't think even a setting book like that is likely. I think they'll save any updates for future adventure books.

Look at how VRGtR was designed, a what 10-15 Domains got a multiple page deep dive, and the rest got a couple of paragraphs. FR is likely be bigger book with more pages devoted to detailing the setting.

There are about 20-30 major nations in Faerun that could get a deep dive of 3-4 pages, so 60 to 120 pages, with lots of room for other stuff. They might merge some nations too. Personally I'd have Mulhorand retake Mugholm for example.
 



I think they might be for a Settijg book...but for the "Domains of Delight" new Setting.
Yep. I'm heavily leaning towards the Feywild in some way (either in whole or Domains of Delight) being one of the completely new settings they mentioned is coming up. And honestly, a deep dive into the fey would be really nice to see...

Doesn't mean the Realms aren't the setting that is going to be revisited, but these new races really don't scream FR to me...

(I almost typed in "Faywild", which would be a 30 Rock based setting, I guess...)
 


Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
Yeah the one specific region will be Faerun 🤣😂😇. Seriously I've heard this one region at a time thing since Tomb of Annihilation and it never happened.

What are you talking about? 5E books have been giving deep dives on lots of regions in FR.

  • The Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (the Sword Coast)
  • Out of the Abyss (the Sword Coast's Underdark)
  • Tomb of Annihilation (Chult)
  • Dragon Heist (Waterdeep Gazetteer)
  • Dungeon of the Mad Mage (Undermountain)
  • Descent into Avernus (Baldur's Gate Gazetteer)
  • Rime of the Frostmaiden (Icewind Dale)
  • Candlekeep Mysteries (Candlekeep)

Seems like the D&D team is a lot more keen on exploring Toril by going deep rather than wide, so I see no reason for why they would throw some really expansive book like a guide to all of Faerun. It seems completely contrary to their whole method for exploring Forgotten Realms in 5E.

I know you personally are very keen on a Faerun guide similar to the FRCS, but I'm very doubtful that's ever going to happen for 5E. I'm not sure which region most intrigues the D&D team, although I remember a while ago on a Spoilers & Swag they wanted to release more books exploring different cultures. I think an updated book (with modern sensibilities and a diverse group of consultants) on Al-Qadim would be a great revisit for example.
 

I could see that for Hobgoblin, but not Kobold.
I think the speculative First World setting is more likely to connect fey goblinoids* with miniature dragons. Then the versions presented in Volo are their degenerate decedents.


*The lack of goblin and bugbear lineages in the UA should have tipped us off that something was fishy about the inclusion of the hobgoblin.
 

Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
I think the speculative First World setting is more likely to connect fey goblinoids* with miniature dragons. Then the versions presented in Volo are their degenerate decedents.


*The lack of goblin and bugbear lineages in the UA should have tipped us off that something was fishy about the inclusion of the hobgoblin.

This would be a very fun take, good idea!
 

Assuming the fey hobgoblins actually are fey hobgoblins, and not intentionally obscured a bit, I cannot see them being in a Forgotten Realms book.

I think a Feywild counterpart to Van Richten's seems not-unlikely to me. Hopefully they'll reprint the satyr race there, too, which feels like a weird omission from Witchlight.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Assuming the fey hobgoblins actually are fey hobgoblins, and not intentionally obscured a bit, I cannot see them being in a Forgotten Realms book.

I think a Feywild counterpart to Van Richten's seems not-unlikely to me. Hopefully they'll reprint the satyr race there, too, which feels like a weird omission from Witchlight.
I could see them being very lightly obscired: "Fey Hobgoblins" when they are actually testing something with a different Goblin-y name like Broggarts or something. That's what they did with the Owlin in the same document.
 

I could see them being very lightly obscired: "Fey Hobgoblins" when they are actually testing something with a different Goblin-y name like Broggarts or something. That's what they did with the Owlin in the same document.
I don't think that is likely, for the following reasons:

Their "Fey Gift" ability is based around "Feywild’s rule of reciprocity". This rule is also mentioned in Wild Beyond the Witchlight. This clearly links them to the Feywild.

Their "Fortune from the Many" ability is mechanically the same as the current hobgoblin "Saving Face" ability, but with different fluff. This makes them actual hobgoblins.
 

Their "Fey Gift" ability is based around "Feywild’s rule of reciprocity". This rule is also mentioned in Wild Beyond the Witchlight. This clearly links them to the Feywild.

Their "Fortune from the Many" ability is mechanically the same as the current hobgoblin "Saving Face" ability, but with different fluff. This makes them actual hobgoblins.
So, if they're really being saved for another book, it's probably either another Feywild book or a big book of more races and lineages.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I don't think that is likely, for the following reasons:

Their "Fey Gift" ability is based around "Feywild’s rule of reciprocity". This rule is also mentioned in Wild Beyond the Witchlight. This clearly links them to the Feywild.

Their "Fortune from the Many" ability is mechanically the same as the current hobgoblin "Saving Face" ability, but with different fluff. This makes them actual hobgoblins.
Well, actual Goblinoids seems a given, but there are oodles and oodles of local variations on the concept of "Goblin," like "Hobb, "Bugbear" or "Kobold."
 

Oh, and that's possibility number three: A big book on goblinoids.

Possibility number four: That might be a way to handle all the formerly evil races: A soft reboot of Volo's showing alternate takes on "always evil" groups like orcs and goblinoids, with variant subraces, new cultures, subclasses themed for many of them, etc. That could even be where the jungle and arctic drow are going to show up, since we know art was done for their cities. :unsure:
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Look at how VRGtR was designed, a what 10-15 Domains got a multiple page deep dive, and the rest got a couple of paragraphs. FR is likely be bigger book with more pages devoted to detailing the setting.

There are about 20-30 major nations in Faerun that could get a deep dive of 3-4 pages, so 60 to 120 pages, with lots of room for other stuff. They might merge some nations too. Personally I'd have Mulhorand retake Mugholm for example.
You consider 4 pages of material on an entire country a "deep dive" of that country...?

Okay.
 

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