Ultimate 12th level Rogue
- Thread starter Grimstaff
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Particle_Man
Explorer
Most builds do well with maxing out Tumble.
But seriously, the breadth of Rogue skills and vast number of skill points means that we really need to know what kind of rogue you are going for - what role do you see your character performing within the party? Do you know what the other party members are? It would also help to know what ability score generation method you plan on using. Also, are you locked into 12 levels of Rogue or are you open to multi-classes or prestige classes?
But seriously, the breadth of Rogue skills and vast number of skill points means that we really need to know what kind of rogue you are going for - what role do you see your character performing within the party? Do you know what the other party members are? It would also help to know what ability score generation method you plan on using. Also, are you locked into 12 levels of Rogue or are you open to multi-classes or prestige classes?
I made a rogue I was pretty happy with, built him at 12th and played him up to 14th for the Castle Maure adventure in Dungeon. Feats went: 1) Wpn Finesse, 3) Quick Draw, 6) Combat Expertise, 9) Flick of the Wrist, 12) Improved Feint. (Would I have made it that way if I played him up from 1st? Probably not, but starting out at 12th it was everything I wanted.) AC: 30; +8 armor (Chainshirt +4), +4 shield (Darkwood Shield +2), +2 Def (Ring of Protection +2), and +6 dodge (dex 18 plus belt of dex +4). The druid in the party buffed me with Barkskin for another +4 Natural, and with full Expertise that gave me an AC: 39. For my higher level Rogue abilities I took Improved Evasion and Opportunist. Tons o' skills, Search, Dis Dev, Tumble, and so on, everything a classic rogue should be good at.
When I sat down to make the character, I had all sorts of rogue multiclasses in my head. I tried a barbarian/rogue, fighter/rogue, ranger/rogue, barbarian/ranger, fighter/ranger/rogue, and really, the single class rogue worked out the best. As a fond player of weird multiclass combinations, I found this a little disheartening. But I liked the character.
It also occurs to me that Flick of the Wrist is not Core book, but you could switch that out for any other feat and be fine. You could lose that and quick draw and take Two Weapon Fighting and Imp Shield Bash, for example. I wouldn't call this the Ultimate Rogue, but its pretty teflon and I had fun playing it. (My GM got a little frustrated, particularly when I would tumble into the second rank of 14 giants and the Mystic Theurge in the party would center Flame Strikes and Fireballs on me every round. Good times.) With my +7d6 Sneak Attack, I was doing about as much damage as the fighters in the party.
When I sat down to make the character, I had all sorts of rogue multiclasses in my head. I tried a barbarian/rogue, fighter/rogue, ranger/rogue, barbarian/ranger, fighter/ranger/rogue, and really, the single class rogue worked out the best. As a fond player of weird multiclass combinations, I found this a little disheartening. But I liked the character.
It also occurs to me that Flick of the Wrist is not Core book, but you could switch that out for any other feat and be fine. You could lose that and quick draw and take Two Weapon Fighting and Imp Shield Bash, for example. I wouldn't call this the Ultimate Rogue, but its pretty teflon and I had fun playing it. (My GM got a little frustrated, particularly when I would tumble into the second rank of 14 giants and the Mystic Theurge in the party would center Flame Strikes and Fireballs on me every round. Good times.) With my +7d6 Sneak Attack, I was doing about as much damage as the fighters in the party.
Gort
Explorer
Agreed with Ki Ryn. Two-weapon fighting basically doubles your sneak attacks. Weapon finesse is good because you want to max out your dexterity, and not worry about strength.
So, let's see. If I was going to make MY ultimate 12th level rogue, I'd go with maximum dexterity, particularly good scores in intelligence and constitution. I'd also go with human as a race, though you can do fine as a halfling. Halflings get the extra dexterity and sneakiness, humans get the skill-points and the extra feat.
Skills to highlight are obviously hide and move silently for sneaking and scouting. Search, disable device and open lock are important for detecting and disarming traps, so max those out. Spot and listen are good too. Get a +14 modifier in tumble so you can get round to flank things without getting attacked. Put ranks in use magic device for versatility.
As far as weapons are concerned, two short swords are a good way to go. Decent damage, nice critical range. Pick up a bow for those "oh, I won initiative, but I'm not in melee range of the target" moments. Quick Draw is a good feat for that stuff as well - lets you get as many full attacks as possible.
Since you're probably going to be in melee, pick up Improved Toughness - those extra hitpoints are the difference between life or death too many times.
Finally, try and make sure you have some way of fighting critical-immune enemies. Bane weapons for undead and constructs are handy, as are disruption weapons, and magic wands.
So, let's see. If I was going to make MY ultimate 12th level rogue, I'd go with maximum dexterity, particularly good scores in intelligence and constitution. I'd also go with human as a race, though you can do fine as a halfling. Halflings get the extra dexterity and sneakiness, humans get the skill-points and the extra feat.
Skills to highlight are obviously hide and move silently for sneaking and scouting. Search, disable device and open lock are important for detecting and disarming traps, so max those out. Spot and listen are good too. Get a +14 modifier in tumble so you can get round to flank things without getting attacked. Put ranks in use magic device for versatility.
As far as weapons are concerned, two short swords are a good way to go. Decent damage, nice critical range. Pick up a bow for those "oh, I won initiative, but I'm not in melee range of the target" moments. Quick Draw is a good feat for that stuff as well - lets you get as many full attacks as possible.
Since you're probably going to be in melee, pick up Improved Toughness - those extra hitpoints are the difference between life or death too many times.
Finally, try and make sure you have some way of fighting critical-immune enemies. Bane weapons for undead and constructs are handy, as are disruption weapons, and magic wands.
JohnSnow
Hero
I had really good success with a rogue that was dual wielding shortswords and making extensive use of the Improved Feint feat.
For that build, human is real nice, for the extra feat and bonus skills. Obviously, Good DEX is essential, as is a decent INT.
Bluff + Improved Feint + TWF = 2 Sneak Attacks per round.
This can be devastating in combat. Choosing skills gets dicey, especially if you want to be good at all the things rogues should be good at.
For that build, human is real nice, for the extra feat and bonus skills. Obviously, Good DEX is essential, as is a decent INT.
Bluff + Improved Feint + TWF = 2 Sneak Attacks per round.
This can be devastating in combat. Choosing skills gets dicey, especially if you want to be good at all the things rogues should be good at.
