Ultimate Dragon Killer

[bret]

Re: Dragon Slayer

Paladin 2 gives immunity to fear(important for a Dragon Slayer).

The bonus to saves and access to Paladin spells will also help a lot. I would be tempted to take 4 levels of Paladin just for the Bless Weapon.

Lots of dragons are evil, it would be nice to get an automatic confirmed crit on any threat against an evil dragon.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

So far we have:

Foe Hunter

Paladin (would require flying mount)

Remember you can put Celestial Armor barding on that mount. So you are not limited to a pegasus or griffin or somesuch.

A truly killer Dragonslayer would be a team where the mount is also a dragon slayer reincarnated in a beast/monster from a spell gone awry. What would make even more amusing is if the rider happened to be the mount's cohort... Can you imagine the arguments they could have?

I suppose you could just go with centaur, but I think that is a little too easy.

What would make this a killer combo is that dragons will very logically assume that mount is the weak link in the smackdown. Therefore they will probably throw Will-save spells at the mount. But a "mount" with the right mix of character levels (and items) is going to have a killer Will save, as well as plenty of other abilities.

 

[Endur]

Only problem with this smackdown is that the Paladin will never get to use his lance if the Dragon has any AOO's left.

i.e. Paladin charges. Dragon gets AOO for moving within the Dragon's reach. Dragon can go after Paladin or Mount (or both if he has combat reflexes). Let's say Dragon goes after the mount. Dragon bites Mount (Pegasus Special Mount in this case).[

Dragon has the snatch feat and has now grappled the mount in his mouth or claw. Paladin is falling unless he has a flight ability. In any event, the Paladin has lost his charge attack.

Tom

QUOTE]Originally posted by Ridley's Cohort
Depends on the level... Sometimes the classic smackdowns work best.

12th level Human Paladin (Evil Dragon Hunter)

Feats: Spirited Charge (Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack), Power Attack, Improved Critical (Lance), Power Critical

Using Blessed Weapon that once per day auto-Threat from Power Critical automatically succeeds against an evil target.

[d8 + <Str> + <weapon bonus> + 12 (smite) + 12 (power attack)] x5 will easily get you in the range of 170-190 points of damage without even needing to make an attack roll.

And I haven't even thrown in cheesy details like insanely pumped strength, or add in a level or two of fighter to squeeze in an extra feat or other fun and games. [/QUOTE]

 

[Spatzimaus]

Only problem with this smackdown is that the Paladin will never get to use his lance if the Dragon has any AOO's left.
Dragon gets AOO for moving within the Dragon's reach. Dragon can go after Paladin or Mount (or both if he has combat reflexes).

Ride-By Attack negates the movement AoO for both rider and mount, just like Spring Attack.

Now, I've actually used something similar to Ridley's Cohort's idea (and is it grammatically correct to use 's twice?): a Giant Owl PC (with a few levels of Psion/Psychic Warrior) with Leadership, who has a cohort rider with the Fly-By Attack Feat. Makes for some fun encounters.

 

[Endur]

Oops. NO, it does not negate the AOO for reach.

Ride by attack (and Spring Attack) negate the AOO for moving twice: both before and after you attack. It does not negate AOOs for moving through a threatened area, or for charging with the power lunge feat, or for grapple attempts, or anything else you could do that would generate an AOO.

Tom

Ride-By Attack negates the movement AoO for both rider and mount, just like Spring Attack.

Now, I've actually used something similar to Ridley's Cohort's idea (and is it grammatically correct to use 's twice?): a Giant Owl PC (with a few levels of Psion/Psychic Warrior) with Leadership, who has a cohort rider with the Fly-By Attack Feat. Makes for some fun encounters.

 

[bret]

Oops. NO, it does not negate the AOO for reach.

Ride by attack (and Spring Attack) negate the AOO for moving twice: both before and after you attack. It does not negate AOOs for moving through a threatened area, or for charging with the power lunge feat, or for grapple attempts, or anything else you could do that would generate an AOO.

Tom

Spring Attack does not provoke an AoO by the defender for the movement. You can move through the defenders threatened area as much as your movement allows without an AoO.

Ride-by looks to be worded slightly differently. Need to look at it more carefully, but I don't think it provokes an AoO by the defender for the movement.

 

[Spatzimaus]

It's been clarified by the Sage, and I thought it was in the FAQ. If I'm attacking you, and I have Spring Attack, you won't get any movement AoOs as the result of my movement. (Someone standing next to you could still get an AoO, though, since I'm not attacking them).

Ride-By Attack is the same, but it's also clarified that my mount doesn't draw an AoO either, even though I'm the one making the attack.

Fly-By Attack is NOT the same, it doesn't prevent AoOs because it's more open-ended (you can take any action between the two submoves, like casting spells or using breath weapons, not just attacks), but there's also an Improved Fly-By Attack that removes the AoO.

 

[Endur]

Ride By Attack and AOOs

The only example of the Ride-By Attack feat is in Sword and Fist on page 66.

In that example, the target can attack the mount, but not the Rider, because the Ride-By Attack feat protects the rider, but not the mount.

In that case, however, the target does not have reach. So that example doesn't cover the situation like this where the Dragon has reach.

Tom

p.s. I don't have a problem with Spring Attack or Ride By Attack defeating Reach, but I really don't think either feat was meant to defeat Reach. If they are meant to defeat Reach, that should be put in the errata for the PHB and be part of the Feat description.

 

[Jeremy]

Edit: Reread and found new text that contradicts the Sage.

 

[Endur]

I found the Sage's comment regarding Spring Attack in the FAQ.

He essentially changes the feat to protect against all types of AOO's from the target that are caused by your movement. Spring Attack under the Sage's interpretation is SUPER-mobility (i.e. instead of +4 to ac against AOO, you are immune to AOO attacks from the target). Which means (if you play with the Sage's interpretation) that Spring Attack is an essential feat against Dragons, Giants, and other large creatures.

With regards to Ride-By Attack, there is nothing in the FAQ about the Ride-By Attack feat. (I read the SnF errata and searched both of the FAQ entries).

I agree that I was suprised by the rule that Ride By Attack feat doesn't protect the mount, but until the rules are changed, those are the rules we have (assuming you use Sword & Fist and the other class books).

Tom