Unarmed Strike + Touch Spell

[RJSmalls]

Clarification

My last post gave me a headache.

The main thing to remember in this discussion, I think, is:

Delivering a Touch Spell via a Touch Attack is not the same thing as delivering a Touch Spell via an Unarmed Strike.

 

[IceBear]

Works for me - a choice has to be made

BTW - I never really had an issue with your original position, but you asked for rationale on the Sage's ruling and that was about all I could think of.

Actually, by the rules, what your player is saying is probably true. I don't think you should be allowed to make an unarmed strike the same round as you cast the spell (the touch attack is part of the spell itself, but an actual attack would require an action that you just used up casting the spell).

IceBear

 

[niastri]

How would it apply with Spring Attack or Flyby attack.

Could a character cast the spell, move, make a touch attack, and move away with one of the above feats?

If so, why, if not why not?

I have a Druid that likes to cast poison (its a scarred lands Druid) while swooping down in eagle form. I wonder if it should be allowed?

 

[IceBear]

In all honesty, I'm not familar enough with these rules to know.

All I know is that you're supposed to be able to make the touch attack as part of casting the spell. Making a real attack with the spell just seems kinda wrong, but I'm not sure.

IceBear

 

[AGGEMAM]

How would it apply with Spring Attack or Flyby attack.

Could a character cast the spell, move, make a touch attack, and move away with one of the above feats?

Yes, to the Fly-by Attack part.

No, to the Spring Attack part.

To explain, Spring Attack requires you to make a melee attack, which you are not becasue you are casting a spell of which the touch attack is part of. And Fly-by Attack allow you to make a partial action, so casting a spell of which a touch attack is part of is allowed.

 

[IceBear]

I was under the impression he was actually attacking with the eagle claws (for damage) at the same time as he was delivering the touch attack.

IceBear

 

[AGGEMAM]

I was under the impression he was actually attacking with the eagle claws (for damage) at the same time as he was delivering the touch attack.

Well, that would not work, unless off course, and in this the spring attack also works, he was hasted and casted the spell as his extra partial action before making the fly-by or spring attack.

All assuming that we are restricted to one round that is. And also assuming that you allow the touch attack to be delivered with a normal attack which I and the rules do not allow.

What was the question again ?

 

[Artoomis]

...And also assuming that you allow the touch attack to be delivered with a normal attack which I and the rules do not allow...

"...If the character touches anything with the character's hand while holding a charge, the spell discharges..."

Depending upon how you define "discharge," it would seem that any unarmed attack would, indeed, deliver a "touch" range spell.

Though I don't have my manuals handy to check, I think the rule about unarmed attacks delivering touch-ranged spells is in the books somewhere and was not just made up by the Sage. 'Course, I could be wriong about that.

BTW: The rule about touching anything discharging the spell is the great balancing factor to "touch" spells being able to be held forever. What's missing is a mechanic for adjuticating it - I've always thought that a concentration check against, say, DC10, and adjusted for being in combat, etc., would be appropriate.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Depending upon how you define "discharge," it would seem that any unarmed attack would, indeed, deliver a "touch" range spell.

Ok, I wrote normal attack where I should have written armed attack.

Any armed attack cannot deliver a touch attack spell.

EDIT: Armed attacks in this context includes unarmed strikes (if you are considered armed with those) and spiked gaunlets, in both these you have to forego damage to deliver a touch attack spell.

EDIT NO. 2: (Note to self should not reply without checking the PHB first) The reason you cannot do damage while delivering a touch attack spell is that the touch attack is already considered an armed attack in and of itself. PHB, page 125 (Not a direct quote).

 

[Deset Gled]

All I know is that you're supposed to be able to make the touch attack as part of casting the spell. Making a real attack with the spell just seems kinda wrong, but I'm not sure.

FWIW, there's a metamagic feat in Beyond Monks that allows a character to deliver an unarmed attack while casting any spell that has a somantic component. I believe it raises the cost of a spell by one level, and there's a style mastery that eventually allows a charactet to use it freely.

Though I don't have my manuals handy to check, I think the rule about unarmed attacks delivering touch-ranged spells is in the books somewhere and was not just made up by the Sage. 'Course, I could be wriong about that.

I beleive it originally appears briefly in the PHB, and was detailed in S+F.