D&D 5E (2024) Unconfirmed Dark Sun World Book

[Scribe]

"Weak" or not, the expectation set by that language is very clear. The Fun Police aren't coming for your game, and the rules encourage heroic characters.

The rules do not encourage it. Wizards just felt a need to put that disclaimer in for reasons.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

From what I remember of 2nd ed. Dark Sun, Preservers played mechanically exactly like the PHB Mage, while Defilers had significantly faster level progression.

5e doesn't do separate XP tables for classes. A suitable bonus for Defilers in 5e could perhaps be that casting by Defiling has a chance of not expending the spell slot.

 

[TwoSix]

These two things are in tension with each other.

Sure, but it's the good kind of "narrative conflict" tension.

If Dark Sun is really about embodying a heroic character who doesn't do the Clearly Evil Villain Stuff, then we don't need player-facing rules for defiling. PC's are exceptional, every PC spellcaster is a preserver, because defiling is Clearly Evil Villain Stuff and PCs are meant to be heroes. Defiling isn't something heroes do -- it's Clearly Evil Villain Stuff. NPC's can defile, and it's the PC's job to stop them.

If Dark Sun is in part about fighting against the lure of how easy and effective the Clearly Evil Villain Stuff is, then there's room for defiling PC's, at least as a kind of fail state for those who succumb to the lure of the Clearly Evil Villain Stuff. That's an appealing conflict, but harder to make a game for if your audience is millions of people, including a lot of kids. Not impossible, but challenging, because the possibility of BEING an evil villain (even as a fail state) means including the possibility of your magical elf fantasy game characters doing nasty things, which isn't something every table is able to handle.

I don't think of defiling as "Clearly Evil Villain Stuff", any more than the Dark Side of the Force. It's obviously evil and corrupting, but definitely falls into the "I can do this bad thing for the greater good/to save my friends" kind of power. That kind of narrative is common enough in fantasy that it borders on cliche.

What is important is to make defiling an option that can freely be opted into and out of, not something that defines a character build.

Besides, we're also talking about a game where the core rules let you raise the dead, and stick someone's soul in a jar so you can puppet their body. Wiping out some crops is really just a drop in the bucket.

 

[Misanthrope Prime]

All this talk about plants actually makes me wonder if spells that already involve creating or animating plants like spike growth or grasping vine may work differently in Athas, or not work at all.

In the 5e Sigil book there's a little bit of ribbon mechanics that change the way summoning spells work in that specific setting, so there is precedent.

 

[Zardnaar]

All this talk about plants actually makes me wonder if spells that already involve creating or animating plants like spike growth or grasping vine may work differently in Athas, or not work at all.

In the 5e Sigil book there's a little bit of ribbon mechanics that change the way summoning spells work in that specific setting, so there is precedent.

They worked as is iirc in 2E. Just not many chances to use them.

They nerfed spell like create food and water.

 

[Yaarel]

Defiling is about annihilating the element of Water.

The desiccation of plants is a byproduct of this loss of water.

Possibly plants are a necessary ingredient in the secret formula for magically benefitting from the defilement of Water.

(Defiling is the magical equivalent of nuclear fission.)

It is all about Water. Getting too distracted by plants is missing the point.

 

[Misanthrope Prime]

Defiling is about annihilating the element of Water.

The desiccation of plants is a byproduct of this loss of water.

Possibly plants are a necessary ingredient in the secret formula for magically benefitting from the defilement of Water.

(Defiling is the magical equivalent of nuclear fission.)

It is all about Water. Getting too distracted by plants is missing the point.

 

[Yaarel]

View attachment 426697

So that is why the blackhole happened in Athasspace?

 

[mamba]

5e doesn't do separate XP tables for classes. A suitable bonus for Defilers in 5e could perhaps be that casting by Defiling has a chance of not expending the spell slot.

automatic upcast maybe

 

[mamba]

I don't think of defiling as "Clearly Evil Villain Stuff", any more than the Dark Side of the Force. It's obviously evil and corrupting, but definitely falls into the "I can do this bad thing for the greater good/to save my friends" kind of power.

yeah, Vader, the Emperor, and the other Sith all were paragons of virtue and looking out for the greater good… I think the comparison is accurate, I just do not arrive at the same destination.