D&D 5E (2024) Unconfirmed Dark Sun World Book

[Zardnaar]

Comparing the popularity of 5E's Curse of Strahd, which IS classic Ravenloft vs the popularity of the 5E exclusive Domains of Dread and their Darklords proves I'm right.

Strahds really popular. Its sub reddit was more active than some D&D ones.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

I don't feel too confortable with certain changes in the 5e of Ravenloft but this can be fixed easily in my own tabletop rewritting the lore acording my own preferences. The good new is when it was unlocked in DMGuild a lot of titles were added.

If I spend my money I want player options and monsters. I don't need the stats of the sorcerer-king Abalach-Re but to know the city-state of Raam is the worst nest of criminal-guilds and there may be secret lairs for fobidden magic experiments.

I want ideas for possible adventures the "Land-within-the-Wind"(Athasian Feywild) and the "Graymist(Gray)", and more information about the faction "the city of spires" from "the Black Spine" (adventure).

(AI art created by Bing)

I like to imagine if my PCs can explore the Grey then they could find secret and hidden demiplanes working as city-states. The souls of the dead sentient beings would live here, like incorporeal undeads during a long time but later they would change into something like demicorporeal elementals. The sad part would be the intertribal conflicts didn't end in this afterlife. The good new is you can hunt elemental pokemons in the Gray to obtain their "core".

What if sorcerer-kings created a transgenic version of zombie-plant or yellow-musk-creeper to create a mind-control plant parasite? Or maybe this was invented by the ancient nature-benders to controll slaves.

 

[Mecheon]

Okay, you haven't watched Doctor Who for about 50 years then.

The Daleks DO do that en-masse to people. Their battlecry and most-used word is "EXTERMINATE!" and their only goal is to commit total genocide on all forms of non-Dalek life. They're space Nazis.

And why are you acting like anyone's defending the racism? I was the one who brought up the problems with the halflings in the first place in this thread.

And Ravenloft DID withstand the test of time. To this day most fans still prefer the classic version that had actual edge to the slop 5E churned out. Aside from the Cinderella Domain which actually had the same edge and flavor of the classic version.

Because Dark Sun and Ravenloft have quality that withstands the test of time and you can easily remove the racist bits without losing that.

Doctor Who's proudly a Monster of the Week show. And as mentioned, there remains a difference in the clearly non-human monster doing something like that compared to a human doing it. Daleks are inhuman monsters anyway you slice it

And given people are going on saying there's "oh they're going to change it from the past and its going to be awful" and the racism is, for sure, the thing we know they're not keeping... Why wouldn't I assume that? We had a whole debate up-thread where people waved off the whole halfling issue. These are the big issues that need to be faced when doing a Dark Sun and if people are pre-emptively saying its going to suck, what assumption can I take away from that other than "People want them to bring in early 90s style racism so bad even Games Workshop went away from it"?

No, Ravenloft did not withstand the test of time. Strahd withstood the test of time, the rest absolutely did not. And frankly, I think Ravenloft has a much edge as Shadow the Hedgehog if I gotta be honest. The setting that gave us 'what if pinnochio was evil' is the equivalent of this memed clip. This is to say nothing of how much of Ravenloft is squarely in TSR's 'we made this book for you to read, not play' era and isn't going to lead to satisfactory play, as most distinct in the ultimate expression of this, Masque of the Red Death, a completely forgotten setting so stuck in 90s RPG design that there's no demand for it to be revived.

If 5e's was truly that disliked and the original so timeless, then the 'here's the REAL ravenloft!' projects would be popular rather than tiny niche things most people ignore.

 

[Azzy]

And Ravenloft DID withstand the test of time. To this day most fans still prefer the classic version that had actual edge to the slop 5E churned out. Aside from the Cinderella Domain which actually had the same edge and flavor of the classic version.

What? The TSR Ravenloft was total Universal Monsters and Hammer Horror camp.

 

[ECMO3]

it’s still the most popular 5e adventure, and probably most popular D&D adventure in the 50 years the game existed

I don't think it is more popular than Keep on the Borderlands was.

 

[Zardnaar]

I don't think it is more popular than Keep on the Borderlands was.

Probably sold more tbh. 800k in USA 2017 iirc vs 1.1 million lifetime is the number we have iirc

 

[Necropolitan]

Doctor Who's proudly a Monster of the Week show. And as mentioned, there remains a difference in the clearly non-human monster doing something like that compared to a human doing it. Daleks are inhuman monsters anyway you slice it

Humans were doing it in The Happiness Patrol and countless other episodes.

And given people are going on saying there's "oh they're going to change it from the past and its going to be awful" and the racism is, for sure, the thing we know they're not keeping... Why wouldn't I assume that?

That's not true at all.

The complaint was that the edge was going to be removed, nobody was defending the racism (the opposite in fact). Why are you making such blatantly false claims?

What? The TSR Ravenloft was total Universal Monsters and Hammer Horror camp.

It had camp parts but there was absolutely serious parts and real edge. Torture, body horror, stalking, etc.

And the Universal Monsters and Hammer Horror movies did too. Heck, even the classic and fairy tale ones.

Bluebeard murdering his wives, the vivisectionist mad scientist obsessed with turning animals into people, everything to do with Strahd, etc.

I don't see how you can look at the Skinthieves and go "Haha, how unserious!"

 

[mamba]

I don't think it is more popular than Keep on the Borderlands was.

not sure how popular that actually was, it just happened to be included with the basic set. Everyone who got Strahd actually wanted it. Chances are Strahd sold more copies too

 

[Mecheon]

That's not true at all.

The complaint was that the edge was going to be removed, nobody was defending the racism (the opposite in fact). Why are you making such blatantly false claims?

This legitimately came up up-thread. This "oh the setting is going to be ruined because we can't do whatever!" statements when there's been exactly zero announcement of anything is just making me question what people are so afraid is going to be removed given we can all agree Dark Sun has its issues, but folks are just saying to ignore all the issues and publish it like it was the 90s. No. Absolutely not.

It had camp parts but there was absolutely serious parts and real edge. Torture, body horror, stalking, etc.

And the Universal Monsters and Hammer Horror movies did too. Heck, even the classic and fairy tale ones.

Bluebeard murdering his wives, the vivisectionist mad scientist obsessed with turning animals into people, everything to do with Strahd, etc.

I don't see how you can look at the Skinthieves and go "Haha, how unserious!"

No, it was camp. Its torture and body horror just pissed off the players because it came down to "The DM kills your character, screw you!", it wasn't scary. It was so un-scary it had to include whole checks just to say 'You should be scared now'. We had an entire thread about how the vast majority of the Ravenloft modules were bad, and time has not been more kind to them in the year since. It is a setting that is HARD carried by how good its first module is is, because even stuff like Goblyns, that I know people like? It ain't good. And as much as we rag on the Forest Oracle around here, the 'Your character dies and you have to play a puppet' module is frankly probably among the actual worst modules in the game's history.

Bluebeard murdering his wives is a stock fairytale plot and backstory, it doesn't come into play and isn't scary, its just a wall of text backstory that you immediately know about the moment you hear he's called Bluebeard, the mad scientist turning animals into people will just get people going 'ah so its just doctor moreau (but without the part where his creations destroy him)', they're just leaning off more popular work. Frankly Bluebeard has all of the energy of the old "You step into Wonderland" module in its sheer not even just trying to do anything to make a unique D&D concept of it, like Strahd is

Skinthieves are random monsters from a Ravenloft monster appendix, they're not exactly iconic creatures of the setting.

 

[Necropolitan]

This legitimately came up up-thread. This "oh the setting is going to be ruined because we can't do whatever!" statements when there's been exactly zero announcement of anything is just making me question what people are so afraid is going to be removed given we can all agree Dark Sun has its issues, but folks are just saying to ignore all the issues and publish it like it was the 90s. No. Absolutely not.

People said exactly what they were worried about being removed and they didn't say it should be published exactly the same, you're making blatantly false claims.

No, it was camp.

No, THIS is camp:

This:

Not so much.