Undead, as monsters or as templates?

[kinem]

Templates, for sure. With some exceptions, of course (like nightshades) but for the vast majority it's templates.

Why shouldn't a giant be able to be made into a mummy? And while an undead wizard might forget his magic if he's a mindless zombie, in most cases, it only makes sense that he'd still use magic.

As for ease of application, in most cases it's not that hard, but it could be improved. Software would help if monsters were in electronic form to begin with. Changing HD may the most work to do by hand, but 4e will probably eliminate that anyway, so hp could be something like "as base creature hp +20".

Example creatures (like the human warrior skeleton) provide ready-to-run stats for those that want them.

 

[Belphanior]

A mix.

It hardly matters if a skeleton was taken from a human or an orc. It doesn't justify all the fiddly math a template requires. And since their locomotion comes from magic, I doubt if the inherent human/orc difference in strength is even justified in the skeletons.

I can see the difference between a human and halfling or ogre skeleton. That's just sheer size.


So, in total:

* Some undead need variations for sizes, most notably the simple animated ones. Give stats for small zombie, medium zombie, etc.

* Some undead are unique monsters. Nightstalker and the like.

* Some undead are templates all the way. Vampires and maybe mummies if a lot of their basic powers remain preserved in the process.

 

[Scribble]

I don't really have much of a preference one way or the other. Templates makes sense, as long as they continue to have some example monsters...

9 times out of 10 I never used the actual template, just the example. I did make a few random undead other stuff though... Like a bunch of zombie treants.. For the most part though doing a template "right" was too much work.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I think a mix should be best.

Classic monsters like zombies, ghouls, hags, vampires, liches, etc. Those should be ordinary monsters.

But there should also be a core-template that can be easily adapted to most creatures. This could maybe happen anyways since with the inclusion of the Shadowfell a undead-centric plane, I expect many ordinary creatures and monsters will gain a undead-template.

 

[kennew142]

I would like to see both for most creatures. The huecuva (for example) was presented as both a simple monster, and as a template. This presentation suited multiple styles of GMing. It also allowed a GM to pull canned creatures out of the book for most huecuvas, but to add some templated leaders. That's how I used them.

In general, I want to spend less time on stat blocks in 4e than I have in 3e.

 

[jdrakeh]

While templates make more sense, the 3.5 templates don't really add much to the equation.

The default templates, anyhow. Things like GR's Advanced Bestiary are fantastic. We need more of that and less "here's a generic monster template".

 

[CleverNickName]

A mix is good.

Simple templates (with examples) are decent for "generic" undead -- skeletons, zombies, "spirits," etc.

Specific examples are better for complex undead (or undead with complex D&D rules) -- vampire, lich, etc.

This.

Though I think ideally the complex undead would be better modeled with a sort of multiclassing/paragon path/epic destiny, really.

But not this. Assigning levels of "vampire" to a base creature sounds like it would be a lot more complicated than applying a template, IMO.

 

[megamania]

A mix is good.

I can see templates for certain common skeletons like skeletons, zombies and ghosts. I can even see Liches as a template only. However, some undead are too too unique to do that way. Bone Claws, Bodaks and a few like that.

I liked the way 3e treated it. Especially with a honorable mention of skeletons and zombies as being both. I have gotten a lot of miliage out of the Vile Deeds templates of "Bone" and "Corpse" as unique undead.

 

[Gloombunny]

I voted "monsters" but "mix" is more accurate.
I just want to apply the templates that make the "mix" a "mix" very very rarely.

What he said, except that I did vote "mix".

 

[dfarnsworth]

As has been said by others, I believe a mix would be best. I have used templates to great affect in my games. Some monsters like the Nightshade I just don't see as being a monster that could be templated.

PS~GR Advanced Bestiary is great.