devincutler
Explorer
Started going through Undermountain and am noticing errors.
SPOILERS GALORE!!
Level 1: The map has a room 6e but there is no description of it.
Level 1: Room 6a mentions creatures in 6b reacting to noise. There are no creatures in 6b. Perhaps they meant 6d?
Level 1: In room 37 near the top it refers the reader to the "Fresco" section below. There is no "Fresco" section. Clearly, it means to refer to the "Map Carving" section below.
Level 9: Room 18 indicates 8 statues in alcoves, but no mention of the statues or the alcoves is mentioned in the room description.
Level 13: Room 7c mentions ball turrets in case Zox is threatened, but there is no actual mention or description of these ball turrets.
Level 14: Room 37. This is not an error so much as, IMO, very bad game design. The room features 7 large niches with a glowing crystal at the top of each niche. Between the niches are 6 indented shapes that match 6 keys you can find lying around the dungeon level. If you put the six keys in their indentations, a magic mouth counts down from 20 to 0 and then there is a whine and every creature on that dungeon level takes 150 force damage from a disintegrate effect, NO SAVE! There are some ways to avoid this. There are two areas that have antimagic over them on the level. Also, anyone who steps into one of the niches is also immune.
The problem is that there is basically no way the PCs can know this will happen. The only possible clue is that the final key is held by a rakshasa who, if you set it free, will hand the key to the PC and tell them "it's one of the six keys required to activate the weapon of mass disintegration in area 37." It is not clear from that description if the rakshasa tells the PCs what this weapon does and how it operates. Given that rakshasas are evil, it is reasonable to assume it might not. But even if it does, there is every chance the PCs will attack and kill the rakshasa, thereby finding the last key and having no information at all about what the room does.
Now, if you are dealing with old school paranoid dungeon crawling grognards, they will be very suspicious of this 6 key contraption and will toss off an Augury spell before doing it. But past that, it's a full TPK with no explanation. Here's how it can go:
Party gathers 5 keys without any idea what they are.
Party encounters rakshasa, sees through its disguise, and kills it because it is an evil creature. They get the 6th key.
Party finds the niche room and sees the key indentations. They check for traps and do not find any. They detect magic and detect abjuration magic in each alcove.
They put the six keys into the slots. Each PC takes 150 damage and, when reduced to 0 hp, dies and is turned to ash. End of party.
That was fun.
When you have something like this in a dungeon, the TPK needs to be the result of the party acting foolishly or missing come clue. There are no clues. No warning anywhere in the dungeon. No clue what the room does beyond the possibly vague reference the rakshasa gives. And basically, only a 13th level barbarian with average HD rolls and a 20 Con will barely survive the effect. Every other class and every barbarian with a Con less than 20 dies.
The idea that the PCs will realize the niches have abjuration magic and will protect them depends on too many variables:
#1) That the PCs cast detect magic at that time
#2) That they realize that there is some danger to them by placing the keys
#3) That the abjuration magic will protect them from that danger
How about putting runes around the room that warn, even obscurely, the PCs to shelter in the niches?
Throughout: When an NPC is a dwarf, the text attempts to give them the characteristics of dwarves from page 282 of the DMG, but neglects to lower their speed to 25 feet. Tactically, that is a very important omission. For example, see the Shield Dwarf champion in level 15 room 29 and the Shield Dwarf vampire on level 15 room 27.
Level 16: Room 23 indicates that the secret trap door is liftable by a combined 15 Str points. But in the description of Room 24, it says it is liftable with a DC 13 Athletics check. While one could argue that maybe the door is more difficult to open from above than below (which makes no logical sense, by the way), the fact is that the other two similar trap doors on the same level all require a DC 13 Athletics check from either above or below. So, to my mind, this is clearly an error.
Level 17: Room 10 says that the intellect devourer inside the grimlock's skull will, if it loses its host, "teleport away to seek a new one." But the intellect devourer's only teleport ability is the ability to teleport out of a host's brain to a space within 5 feet of the host. So that is hardly teleporting away to seek a new one.
Will post more if I notice them. If there is another thread covering this, let me know.
SPOILERS GALORE!!
Level 1: The map has a room 6e but there is no description of it.
Level 1: Room 6a mentions creatures in 6b reacting to noise. There are no creatures in 6b. Perhaps they meant 6d?
Level 1: In room 37 near the top it refers the reader to the "Fresco" section below. There is no "Fresco" section. Clearly, it means to refer to the "Map Carving" section below.
Level 9: Room 18 indicates 8 statues in alcoves, but no mention of the statues or the alcoves is mentioned in the room description.
Level 13: Room 7c mentions ball turrets in case Zox is threatened, but there is no actual mention or description of these ball turrets.
Level 14: Room 37. This is not an error so much as, IMO, very bad game design. The room features 7 large niches with a glowing crystal at the top of each niche. Between the niches are 6 indented shapes that match 6 keys you can find lying around the dungeon level. If you put the six keys in their indentations, a magic mouth counts down from 20 to 0 and then there is a whine and every creature on that dungeon level takes 150 force damage from a disintegrate effect, NO SAVE! There are some ways to avoid this. There are two areas that have antimagic over them on the level. Also, anyone who steps into one of the niches is also immune.
The problem is that there is basically no way the PCs can know this will happen. The only possible clue is that the final key is held by a rakshasa who, if you set it free, will hand the key to the PC and tell them "it's one of the six keys required to activate the weapon of mass disintegration in area 37." It is not clear from that description if the rakshasa tells the PCs what this weapon does and how it operates. Given that rakshasas are evil, it is reasonable to assume it might not. But even if it does, there is every chance the PCs will attack and kill the rakshasa, thereby finding the last key and having no information at all about what the room does.
Now, if you are dealing with old school paranoid dungeon crawling grognards, they will be very suspicious of this 6 key contraption and will toss off an Augury spell before doing it. But past that, it's a full TPK with no explanation. Here's how it can go:
Party gathers 5 keys without any idea what they are.
Party encounters rakshasa, sees through its disguise, and kills it because it is an evil creature. They get the 6th key.
Party finds the niche room and sees the key indentations. They check for traps and do not find any. They detect magic and detect abjuration magic in each alcove.
They put the six keys into the slots. Each PC takes 150 damage and, when reduced to 0 hp, dies and is turned to ash. End of party.
That was fun.
When you have something like this in a dungeon, the TPK needs to be the result of the party acting foolishly or missing come clue. There are no clues. No warning anywhere in the dungeon. No clue what the room does beyond the possibly vague reference the rakshasa gives. And basically, only a 13th level barbarian with average HD rolls and a 20 Con will barely survive the effect. Every other class and every barbarian with a Con less than 20 dies.
The idea that the PCs will realize the niches have abjuration magic and will protect them depends on too many variables:
#1) That the PCs cast detect magic at that time
#2) That they realize that there is some danger to them by placing the keys
#3) That the abjuration magic will protect them from that danger
How about putting runes around the room that warn, even obscurely, the PCs to shelter in the niches?
Throughout: When an NPC is a dwarf, the text attempts to give them the characteristics of dwarves from page 282 of the DMG, but neglects to lower their speed to 25 feet. Tactically, that is a very important omission. For example, see the Shield Dwarf champion in level 15 room 29 and the Shield Dwarf vampire on level 15 room 27.
Level 16: Room 23 indicates that the secret trap door is liftable by a combined 15 Str points. But in the description of Room 24, it says it is liftable with a DC 13 Athletics check. While one could argue that maybe the door is more difficult to open from above than below (which makes no logical sense, by the way), the fact is that the other two similar trap doors on the same level all require a DC 13 Athletics check from either above or below. So, to my mind, this is clearly an error.
Level 17: Room 10 says that the intellect devourer inside the grimlock's skull will, if it loses its host, "teleport away to seek a new one." But the intellect devourer's only teleport ability is the ability to teleport out of a host's brain to a space within 5 feet of the host. So that is hardly teleporting away to seek a new one.
Will post more if I notice them. If there is another thread covering this, let me know.
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