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<blockquote data-quote="ExploderWizard" data-source="post: 7528011" data-attributes="member: 66434"><p>The group came in silently at the rear of the creature's lair and had a chance to observe the monster without being seen. They thought that the element of surprise would be enough to ensure victory. They were mistaken. Yes they could have seen the creature and exited as quietly as they entered but opted instead to attack. </p><p></p><p>Ambushing PCs with overwhelmingly powerful foes when nothing has been done to invite such an encounter is not really fair I agree. When the players have options and choose to charge forth that is another matter. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would like to address the the concept of poor design for a moment. Too often poor design is thrown out as a catch-all excuse whenever an "un-winnable" combat scenario is a distinct possibility within the context of the adventure. I don't expect to be able to chop through any and all situations with brute force in a role playing game. There are choices that can be made that don't involve hitting something with a sword or fleeing for your life. Some situations might require parley and negotiation to resolve. It becomes difficult to resolve such encounters when the players always almost without exception, start fighting first. </p><p></p><p>One issue that contributes to the problem of every obstacle looking like a nail is that all PC classes in the last few editions of D&D have been forged into hammers. When every member of the party is more or less a top tier fighter in their own right, it naturally follows that hitting things first becomes the go to mode of operation, the logic being that they wouldn't have all those combat abilities if they were not supposed to use them <strong>all</strong><strong>the</strong><strong>time.</strong></p><p></p><p>Once the mentality of being a berserk murderhobo in any conflict and the experience of this actually working take hold it is difficult to expect sane, rational, or prudent behavior from players.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ExploderWizard, post: 7528011, member: 66434"] The group came in silently at the rear of the creature's lair and had a chance to observe the monster without being seen. They thought that the element of surprise would be enough to ensure victory. They were mistaken. Yes they could have seen the creature and exited as quietly as they entered but opted instead to attack. Ambushing PCs with overwhelmingly powerful foes when nothing has been done to invite such an encounter is not really fair I agree. When the players have options and choose to charge forth that is another matter. I would like to address the the concept of poor design for a moment. Too often poor design is thrown out as a catch-all excuse whenever an "un-winnable" combat scenario is a distinct possibility within the context of the adventure. I don't expect to be able to chop through any and all situations with brute force in a role playing game. There are choices that can be made that don't involve hitting something with a sword or fleeing for your life. Some situations might require parley and negotiation to resolve. It becomes difficult to resolve such encounters when the players always almost without exception, start fighting first. One issue that contributes to the problem of every obstacle looking like a nail is that all PC classes in the last few editions of D&D have been forged into hammers. When every member of the party is more or less a top tier fighter in their own right, it naturally follows that hitting things first becomes the go to mode of operation, the logic being that they wouldn't have all those combat abilities if they were not supposed to use them [B]all[/B][B]the[/B][B]time.[/B] Once the mentality of being a berserk murderhobo in any conflict and the experience of this actually working take hold it is difficult to expect sane, rational, or prudent behavior from players. [/QUOTE]
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