Underwater spellcaster, casting at "dry" PC's HELP!

[d12]

Here's the situation.

There a room with a large deep pool of nasty, muck-filled stagnant water. Its TOTALLY opaque - no one can see more than 2 inches below the surface. Its still water though and any creature can swim in it normally. There's an area around the pool for walking, but its only 5 feet wide. Got it?

Now, there's a bone naga in the pool. If you don't have the MMII, the bone naga is an undead naga with the spellcasting powers of a 14th level sorceror. The bone naga has the feats still spell and silent spell. This bone naga has also been given blightsight in a 30 foot radius.

Now, this bone naga wants to stay 5-15 feet below the surface and cast spells at the PCs as they come in the room. Using her metamagic feats means she won't have to move or speak at all to cast spells. Using blightsight, she'll have a fix on the PC's location.

Questions:

1. Will the PC's be automatically surprised? I mean, what's the spot or listen check on something that doesn't move or speak? If I allow a spot or listen check, what's the DC? Should I do an opposed hide/spot check and if so, what kind of bonus will the naga get for being totally under mucky water.

2. If a character fires an arrow at a Naga underwater, will the water affect the arrow's path? How will I do this game mechanics-wise. Is the current depth of the naga an issue?

3. What spells can be cast into or out of the water? I mean, I bet the naga can get off Summon Monster VI with no problem but will a Disintergrate ray travel through water to hit PC's above? What about a fireball? Lightning bolt? Magic Missile? Ice Storm?

4. Anything else I'm not thinking of?

 

[kreynolds]

3. What spells can be cast into or out of the water?

Spells that do not require line of effect (water blocks it), and if the water is opaque, as you say, also spells that do not require line of sight.

 

[d12]

Re: Re: Underwater spellcaster, casting at "dry" PC's HELP!

Spells that do not require line of effect (water blocks it), and if the water is opaque, as you say, also spells that do not require line of sight.

But is line of sight an issue since blightsight is coming into play?

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Underwater spellcaster, casting at "dry" PC's HELP!

But is line of sight an issue since blightsight is coming into play?

Right. Forgot about that. Shouldn't be an issue. After all, blindsight allows a creature to "see" just as well as a sighted creature. The lack of line of effect will be your greatest problem though.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The core rules do not really cover this situation.

Blindsight may or may not apply. It is purely a DM judgement call. The rules covering blindsight are woefully incomplete.

As for line of effect, I am with kreynolds. A few feet of water seems like it should be as much a barrier an any wood door might be (although I could seem relaxing that restriction if the combatants are all in the water simultaneously). If you let the Naga cast Magic Missiles out of the water, the PCs should be allowed to lauch arrows and Fireballs into the water. If you create an ugly loophole, expect the players to drive a Mack truck through it.

As for your question on surprises, everyone who ever attempts an ambush tries to not move or make a noise. Actually succeeding is difficult; that is why we have skills.

Even if the Naga is very still, previous movement from rounds or minutes ago may betray that something is in the water -- that is very difficult to avoid in small bodies of water. In general, I would call for the Naga's Hide skill vs. Spot. A successful Spot reveals something has disturbed the water recently and those PCs get to act in the surprise round. (In the case of undead, it is conceivable that the Naga does sit on the bottom of the pool motionless for days on end. That is also a DM judgement call.)

 

[Piratecat]

I disagree. If a few feet of water blocked line of effect, how in the world would underwater spellcasters (sea elves, mermen and the like) cast spells at one another?

A better statement might be that the boundary between wet and dry blocks line of effect. I'm still not so sure about that, though.

 

[kreynolds]

As for line of effect, I am with kreynolds. A few feet of water seems like it should be as much a barrier an any wood door might be (although I could seem relaxing that restriction if the combatants are all in the water simultaneously).

Actually, I'm not concerned with the _amount_ of water between the caster and the destination/target. I only care about the _surface_ of the water.

 

[Kraedin]

I'm not sure if the surface of the water counts as a "solid barrier" for the purposes of line of effect.

 

[Destil]

Is it the FAQ someplace that the surface of water blocks line of effect? Seams fairly counter intuitive to me (though I never liked the line of effect rules in some ways, anyway. Stupid wind wall). I've always just ruled that the effects of refraction grant 20% concealment between water/dry land.

In refrence to the original question, I'd treat her as an unmoving invisible creature, meaning the spot DC is 30 just to notice her, and 50 to pinpoint her (if it were an unliving construct or undead it would be 40/60 )

 

[Dimenhydrinate]

I would hold the lightning spells until the pc's are in the water. Then they should have some minuses to the reflex saves and it might get them all. DM's call.